EdwardJCornwell

cbontenbal , 9 months ago to philosophy Dutch

I find myself not understanding the concept of atheism. Who wants to explain it to me in a coherent way for a beginner? With a metaphysical substantiation please, if that is at all possible.

#atheism #theism #philosophy #religion #metaphysics @philosophy

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @cbontenbal @philosophy @davidesalerno68 That's just a word game; 'accept' in this context is synonymous with 'believe'.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@msteenhagen @lack @cbontenbal @spencer @philosophy @Drew @philippsteinkrueger No it isn't, colour is created by our brains, ergo it is a brain state.

We have no idea whether 'colour' exists independently.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @cbontenbal @philosophy @davidesalerno68 but 'evidence' is simply another thing that your chosen paradigm tells you is important.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @cbontenbal @philosophy @davidesalerno68 You can't be sure that what you observe is also observable to others though; just because you see a Big Bang doesn't mean I'm not seeing a pink elephant - if we both call what we see a Big Bang then you have no idea that we're not observing the same thing. Just because you repeatedly observe a Big Bang and I repeatedly observe a pink elephant doesn't make the observation more correct.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @spencer @msteenhagen @philosophy @cbontenbal @lack @philippsteinkrueger @Drew but frequencies of light have no 'colour', they merely have a property that our brains interpret as 'colour'.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @cbontenbal @philosophy @davidesalerno68 so do religions, so flexibility isn't a key attribute of either.

OK, so we've moved the goal posts from 'observation' to 'measurement' (another word game but I've already made that point); how do you know that when you measure a metre I'm not measuring a yard and calling it a metre? Once you've 'measured', you then have to 'observe'.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@msteenhagen @lack @cbontenbal @spencer @philosophy @Drew @philippsteinkrueger pigment and dye makers create substances that reflect light in given wavelengths. If you could please show me where a quanta of light keeps its colour properties I would be very grateful.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@msteenhagen @lack @cbontenbal @spencer @philosophy @Drew @philippsteinkrueger if colours existed in the substances themselves, then we wouldn't need light to see them. Turn out the lights and discriminate between colours.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@msteenhagen @lack @cbontenbal @spencer @philosophy @Drew @philippsteinkrueger But they're not surface qualities, because that quality disappears when our sight disappears - but the object remains, same as your feet in the dark. The only difference when the lights go out is our brain state, we're obligated to 'sense' the object another way.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @davidesalerno68 @cbontenbal @philosophy measurement is no more repeatable than observation.You can't know if our measurements are the same, 'units' and 'standards' mean nothing if '1 metre' is a platinum bar to you and a pink elephant to me. You will never know that I'm looking at a pink elephant and I'll never know that you're looking at a platinum bar.

'I think, therefore I am, but I have no idea if you do, or I just think you do.' and that's why 'objectivity' in science is pointless.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@msteenhagen @lack @cbontenbal @spencer @philosophy @Drew @philippsteinkrueger They do disappear 'for you', your brain is no longer able to create the brain state that interprets photons of different wavelengths as colours. You friend can observe the colours because her brain is still capable of creating that brain state, but there's nothing you can do to create the brain state of seeing colour.

If we all went blind, then 'colours' would cease to exist.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @cbontenbal @philosophy @davidesalerno68 everything IS pointless, but wishing it weren't won't make other people exist.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@msteenhagen @lack @cbontenbal @spencer @philosophy @Drew @philippsteinkrueger if you are not able to perceive colours, in what way can they be said to exist for you?

How would you test to see if they continued to exist, if you couldn't conceptualise their existence?

I didn't say they 'disappeared' from the universe, but unless another being exists to perceive 'colour' in the same way humans do, then 'colour' as we define it ceases to exist.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @cbontenbal @philosophy @davidesalerno68 BTW, 'assumption' as you use the term here is another synonym with 'belief'.

EdwardJCornwell , 8 months ago

@Jakra @philosophy @cbontenbal @davidesalerno68

I'll just leave this here:

'Science is totally a human invention, it is nothing more than a process of inquiry. It is not a belief system, just a structure for asking questions and attempting to answer them in a (hopefully) repeatable manner.'