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TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure how this is supposed to work? Anti-semites are taking advantage of such protests but as far as I know there’s no anti-semitism ID card???

atetulo ,

Anti-zionist != anti-semite

Zaktor ,

They didn’t say anything of the sort. The context provided elsewhere in this post is that some people were chanting “gas the Jews”. Anti-Semites are taking advantage of protests. That doesn’t mean protesters are anti-Semites.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

They’re not anti-zionists if they’re saying ‘gas the Jews’.

HydraulicMonkey ,

I don’t see anyone say here that under normal circumstances you have to identify yourself to police upon their request. I’m fairly certain this is true for all Australian states. It certainly is here in Queensland.

generalpotato ,

Oh look another “enlightened” nation walking back on the right to free speech and protest when it doesn’t suit their agenda/political goals.

Honestly, what the fuck? Might as well be living under Russian or Chinese regimes at this point.

halfempty ,
@halfempty@kbin.social avatar

It certainly puts a chilling effect on the right to protest when police interrogate individuals on site, demanding papers. It is certainly plausible that these names collected would be used for future persecution by the authorities.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

Wtf. Because of what some brown people are doing thousands of miles away, brown people in Australia are going to have to deal with this shit?;

Gerula ,

Actually I think it translates in: because of what brown people are doing thousands of miles away, brown people in Australia - which support and simpatise - are going to have to deal with this shit.

ViewSonik ,

👍🏻👍🏻

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

“Racism” and “acts of violence” are awfully vague and hardly justification for warrantless searches, imo.

agitatedpotato ,

That’s a pretty racist thing to say, I’m gonna need to search your asshole sir.

Wrench ,

I just came back from holiday in Australia. First time there.

It was a bit surprising how “anti-immigrant” they are. And it’s front and center.

The general conversation when meeting someone would go along the lines of “where are you from? What brings you here? Oh! California, so beautiful! How’s your immigrant problem coming along?”

This happened with sooo many people, it was shocking. And most of them were dumbfoundedat our reply along the lines of “don’t believe the news. We’ve lived 30 minutes from the border for decades. Immigrants, illegal or not, aren’t really a problem. Most work hard to try to make a better life for their families, just like anyone else”

Australia also recently (I think) enacted a zero tolerance policy for immigrants. One infraction, and you’re deported. Or work visa revoked. Something like that.

This is likely going to be abused on these protestors, peaceful or not.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

I recall an Aussie on here claiming Australia was one of the least racist countries on the planet a few months back. Had a good laugh at that one

agitatedpotato ,

It’s funny because I heard the same claim from a Canadian, and my response would be the same to both those countries citizens. “So tell me about your countries native populations”

100_percent_a_bot ,

Hard to be racist if a visa costs your life savings and a kidney so there’s barely any immigrants anyways… Oh and 0 tolerance for people coming illegaly on boats

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

A liberal woman: So you have had sex with a racist?

Jim Jeffries: I’m Australian! I wasn’t given much options!

rhythmnova ,

This is probably a reflection of US racism more than anything else. The US-mexico border is constantly in international news so there is an awareness of your ‘challenges’ with migration across that border.

You may conclude that we’re anti immigrant but Australia has double the per-capita immigration of the US. Nearly 30% of our population was born overseas as of 2020.

We didn’t enact a zero tolerance policy for immigrants, and I’m unaware of anything remotely similar.

Hopefully this protest is peaceful, unlike the one during the week where protestors were chanting “gas the Jews”.

Wrench ,

The zero tolerance thing came from a taxi driver, so definitely taken with a grain of salt. I think he implied that run ins with the police had a high likelihood of resulting in deportation, which I think was via termination of a work visa. He was an immigrant himself, so I don’t know if that’s just his consumption of some iffy media.

But I will push back that it’s not just an “American racism is well known” thing. Maybe their comfort in bringing it up to a stranger, but I had many conversations with the overarching theme of “there’s a job crisis in Australia, and immigrants are causing problems, both because they’re taking jobs, and because they’re causing tensions”

I remember one claim that Kiwis were frequently rough and rowdy, which I found hilarious given their representation in media. But I guess blue collar migrant workers anywhere can be a little rough around the edges.

rhythmnova ,

I would question if Australians are so racist why we would need to seek comfort in discussing our racism with strangers. Surely we’d just all be discussing it openly amongst ourselves.

We don’t have a job crisis here: our unemployment rate is lower than the US and UK and significantly lower than Canada and the EU. You may well have heard those claims, but there are racists who will make those unwarranted claims regardless of the country.

I’ve never heard kiwis being described as rough and rowdy (or rough and ready, as we say here). We do give them a bit of shit because they talk funny but that goes both ways.

Wrench ,

I’ve never heard kiwis being described as rough and rowdy (or rough and ready, as we say here). We do give them a bit of shit because they talk funny but that goes both ways.

Yeah, all I could picture was Jermaine and Bret trying to act like street toughs.

rhythmnova ,

That is an entirely accurate depiction of kiwis.

hitmyspot ,

It’s not just anti immigration. We’re having a referendum on giving aboriginal people a voice to parliament. The NO side has been pretty divisive and sometimes outright racist. The NO side is ahead by a large margin.

atetulo ,

Yeah, especially considering how racist Aussies are to their indigenous peoples.

isles ,

Maybe I’m crazy, but this conflict is shining the biggest floodlight on all the fascism around the western world. I hope enough people have the wherewithal to notice.

HurlingDurling ,

Not just that, but while I never believed in the illuminate, the fact that more governments are seemingly being this extreme with their support for Israel kinda seems like someone has almost ordered them to take the same side regardless of what their previous position has been on similar subjects.

BaldProphet ,
@BaldProphet@kbin.social avatar

Due process isn't really a thing in most places. Commonwealth nations, especially, seem to grant "extraordinary powers" to their police forces.

rhythmnova ,

Not to interfere with your narrative but this comes after a pro-palestinian protest during the week where protesters were shouting “gas the Jews” reuters.com/…/police-investigate-pro-palestinian-…

MiltownClowns ,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

rhythmnova ,

Nobody is being punished by having their id checked or their person searched.

nephs ,

It is an intimidation technique, though.

I’ve refrained from even acknowledging Palestinian peoples struggle in public to reduce risk of being tagged as a anti-fascist, or pro-terrorist.

rhythmnova ,

Palestinian people’s struggles are real and have been continually acknowledged for decades. But so are the struggles of Israeli people.

The problems start when people excuse these terrorist attacks as being a natural reaction to Israel’s oppression, or even worse, directly blame it on Israel (as per the Harvard letter). And this is something that has been repeated ad-nauseum in certain circles over the last week.

Nothing justifies behaviour like beheading a bunch of babies.

nephs ,

The beheading of babies is fake news, though. And use of fake news is signature tactics of far right public opinion manipulation.

edition.cnn.com/2023/10/12/…/index.html

Shit is complex, friend. :/

rhythmnova ,

Your own article confirms that the reports were verified. And the subsequent arguments (that not ALL the babies were beheaded) is one of the most reductive and idiotic things I’ve seen this year.

Also, you can find the footage of this yourself. I don’t recommend it.

Yeah shit is complex, it’s not as simple as “Israel bad” and “Palestinians innocent and oppressed” like most people who are overnight experts would have you believe.

nephs ,

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Sources for confirmation are the IDF and IDF provided pictures. news.sky.com/…/its-important-to-separate-the-fact…

There’s also reports that there are ai generated pictures trying to support these claims: samaa.tv/208732623-fact-check-ai-generated-burnt-…

Wars do include a lot of misinformation, and everything is just so quick. We have to dismiss first, and try to find the extraordinary evidence. I couldn’t. You can’t prove something doesn’t exist, or something didn’t happen.

Unfortunately nobody got time to read everything in detail. We skim through everything and try to come up with some sense out of it according to our world views.

rhythmnova ,

I’ll mention again that your own source (www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/…/ar-AA1hZUff) concluded the report as true.

Some other sources such as Snopes say the reports of babies being specifically beheaded is unverified, but they do confirm that babies have been killed and adults have been beheaded. So if we want to take that on face value, we’re still back to the pointless and absurd discussion about how many civilians of any age can be killed, and in what manner, before such killings go from being a justifiable to unjustifiable response to Israeli oppression.

nephs ,

Yes. One of my sources state that. You see I’m not cherry picking. I’m taking a variety of sources to try to make some sense of this shit show.

So. Fair. Beheading is particularly graphic violence. Is killing by bombing acceptable, then, because it’s not a human killing another with their own hands, because there’s indirection in between, through fighter planes and the explosives?

It should all be unacceptable, I believe we agree. I acknowledge the violence of this week’s attack, but I also acknowledge the Israeli violence before and after this week’s attack.

What’s the objective way to look at this? Maybe is the onion’s. theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because…

rhythmnova ,

I think the onions take is fair and can’t really argue with it. After so much bad blood on both sides over so many decades I’ve got no clue what the solution is. However, I think another objective way to look at the situation is to consider what the outcome would be if the relative military strength of the two sides were switched. I think it’s pretty clear that in such a case the state of Israel would have been erased in the late 1940s.

nephs ,

It would, but it’s not really objective since it was also established through military force. Either way, it’s allowing for one of peoples to use military strength and not another.

Saturnus ,

Holy shit you are a moron

Inui , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    rhythmnova ,

    Not surprising at all, no. But these anti-semites were islamic (not the white neo-nazi variety). And considering the small crowds in London dancing around waving swastikas and a car full of people in Melbourne driving around saying they were “hunting Jews”, combined with Hamas’s formally stated aims of killing Jews and destroying the Jewish state, you might be entitled to wonder how many actually aren’t anti-Semites.

    Zaktor ,

    you might be entitled to wonder how many actually aren’t anti-Semites.

    Uh no, that’s racist as fuck.

    rhythmnova ,

    I wonder why the Arab nations surrounding Israel have invaded it twice since the late 1940s? Or why Hamas (the ‘elected’ governing party of Gaza) have the destruction of the Jewish state (and, until a few years ago, also the indiscriminate killing of any Jews) as among their formally stated objectives.

    If you’re surprised at the idea that Palestinians might not like Jews very much you should do a bit more reading before wading in with accusations of racism.

    Zaktor ,

    I’ve also heard that some black people in South Africa attacked white people. It’s not racist to think there were racially motivated black terrorist groups. It’s racist to think all black people were terrorists.

    You fluidly dance between Hamas, Arab nations, Palestinians, and “Islamic” people as a whole, because that’s how racists take the sins of individuals to justify their prejudice.

    rhythmnova ,

    You wasted absolutely no time trivialising reality to suit your simplistic narrative.

    The groups I’m ‘fluidly dancing’ between are not fringe offshoots, they are the ‘elected’ governing body of Gaza and a coalition of Arab nation-states who have invaded Israel more than once. To provide you some focus you badly need, Hamas’s charter is very clear on its goals and objectives around the state of Israel and its population of Jews. www.theatlantic.com/international/…/675602/

    Zaktor ,

    You still don’t get that extrapolating from “Hamas” to even “Palestinians” is wrong, let alone to Australian Muslims in general.

    generalpotato ,

    Maybe if the governments capable of speaking up and de-escalating the situation in Gaza actually did so, people won’t be driven to extremes.

    It’s not easy to do the right thing. It is however, easy to oppress those that don’t have power, and this is an example of it.

    I’m not justifying anti-semitism, those people should absolutely be punished, but we can’t be tone deaf about how most governments allied with the West have become silent and aren’t willing do anything, let alone de-escalate the killing of innocent civilians.

    atetulo ,

    Keep in mind, all it takes is 2 protestors to be saying ‘gas the jews’ for your statement to be true.

    Ringmasterincestuous ,

    Ahhh… ye old where’s your papers

    autotldr Bot ,

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    The premier, Chris Minns, has backed the police using the powers, saying they were justified given a pro-Palestine rally held on Monday “descended into racism” and “acts of violence” on the steps of the Sydney Opera House.

    The NSW police acting commissioner, David Hudson, said he believed the threshold for using the powers introduced after the 2005 Cronulla riots had been met and he would seek to have them enabled before the rally in Sydney’s Hyde Park.

    Addressing the media in a snap press conference on Friday afternoon, the premier said there was a right to protest in NSW but he was concerned the event on Sunday was being organised by the same group behind Monday’s march.

    “What we have seen in the past week in NSW is a draconian attack on our right to demonstrate in solidarity with the people of Palestine, who are currently facing a genocide in Gaza,” Naser said on Friday.

    Stephen Blanks, who is from the NSW Council for Civil Liberties, will act as the organising group’s legal adviser if it mounts a supreme court challenge against the police powers.

    The operation head, assistant commissioner Mal Lanyon, said police were working to identify people who may have broken the law at Monday night’s protest.

    The original article contains 845 words, the summary contains 209 words. Saved 75%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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