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ISIS prisoners killed after slashing guards, seizing hostages in Russian jail

Russia, whose defense and security agencies are heavily focused on its war in Ukraine, has seen a recent upsurge in Islamist militant attacks.

Four knife-wielding prisoners claiming to be Islamic State group militants launched a deadly attack in a penal colony in southern Russia on Friday before being killed and their hostages released, officials said.

The attack left four people dead, while the four hostage-taking prisoners were “neutralized” by snipers, Russian officials said.

The attackers initially seized eight penal colony employees and four fellow inmates, according to Russia’s Federal Penitentiary Ser

Cephalotrocity ,

Those poor innocent penal colony employees just trying to make money and live their lives! We should incessantly call for the destruction of the Russian Government every hour of every day until successful as it is clearly all their fault!

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Or we should incessantly call for the destruction of the Russian government because it is an oligarchic dictatorship currently committing a lot of war crimes while invading a sovereign country and threatening other countries in Europe, along with nuclear sabre-rattling.

alcoholicorn ,

I mean it is, but that’s also true of America. This is a war between two capitalist powers trying to do imperialism. The only stance that isn’t continuing the slaughter of the working class for the benefit of some oligarchs is peace as quickly as possible and opposing any means for your own government to prolong the war.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

alcoholicorn ,

As someone who is not in a country supporting Russia, every thing you say to justify more death in Ukraine because “russia also bad” is whataboutism.

You cannot affect what Russia does. You can (OK, if any of our representatives actually represented us) affect what your own country does.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Also bad? Also along with whom? The subject of this post is Russia. We are talking about Russia because Russia is the subject. There is no “also” with Russia in this post.

calcopiritus ,

I don’t understand. Who here is justifying death in Ukraine? I thought this post was about Russian penal colonies (in Russia, not Ukraine).

alcoholicorn ,

Flying Squid, as someone not living in Russia talking to people who mostly don’t live in Russia, calling for the destruction of the Russian state, only serves to justify further weapons to Ukraine, spilling more Ukrainian and Russian blood.

If we were in Russia, the situation would be reversed (we also might not even be having this conversation due to fear of reprecussion)

calcopiritus ,

I have looked across the whole thread and see no justification of death in flying squid’s comments.

But since you mentioned it, I don’t understand your reasoning of “sending weapons to Ukraine results in spilling Ukrainian and Russian blood”. Ukraine is defending itself from a Russian invasion. The only one capable of stopping the war is Russia. It’s how invasions work. There is an invader and an invaded. The invaded has no choice but to defend themselves. The invader has 2 choices: keep invading ir stop invading.

Sending weapons to Ukraine means Ukraine is able to defend itself, signaling to Russia that they can’t invade other countries for free, which means Russia will be less capable to invade other countries. Which in turn means less blood spilled overall.

If you want the least amount of blood spilled, you should be advocating to send weapons to Ukraine.

alcoholicorn ,

If you want the least amount of blood spilled, you should be advocating to send weapons to Ukraine.

There were peace offers from Russia a year ago that would have had them give up a portion of their occupied territory for peace. Ukraine declined because they believed they had the means to take back even more territory (at the expense of a lot more Ukrainian blood).

We’d have avoided the last year’s bloodshed if we stopped sending weapons back then.

What we are seeing right now is the absolute worst possible scenario for Ukrainians; a quick win or loss wouldn’t have killed 100K+, destroyed millions of homes, and displaced millions of refugees.

signaling to Russia that they can’t invade other countries for free

Russia can barely manage to invade the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine, do you really think they’re planning to invade NATO next?

Cephalotrocity ,

But but… They pay me though! (lol as if they could afford to atm)

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I hope you aren’t saying that because you think that’s what I’m suggesting, because I do not think you are some sort of paid actor.

And honestly, if Russia is paying people to spread Russian propaganda on Lemmy of all places, let them waste their money.

Cephalotrocity ,

I hope you aren’t saying that because you think that’s what I’m suggesting

FTR no I’m not.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

We’re all good then. :)

alcoholicorn , (edited )

What were the conditions in the prison? What were the prisoner’s demands?

At least in the historical cases I’m aware of, when prisoners take hostages, they have demands related to their conditions. And gunning down those prisoners and their hostages while pretending they just decided to murder people for no reason after taking hostage is not an atypical response.

From what I’ve heard, some Russian prisons are just as bad as American prisons, locking people in solitary for months to years at a time or in large rooms full of small cages.

lemmylommy ,

Just as bad? I would rather spend my life in American Supermax than stay five years in a Russian penal colony.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

This person desperately wants to talk about the U.S. to the point that they’re accusing me of whataboutism by talking about Russia in a thread about Russia.

alcoholicorn ,

I’m more familiar with prisoner abuse and prison riots in America than Russia, I don’t have much else to compare it to.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    lemmylommy ,

    That’s what I wrote, not alcoholicorn.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    D’oh! Deleting. I pasted the wrong thing.

    alcoholicorn ,

    I’m certain you’re not familiar enough with Russian prisons either given that you apply zero criticism to western sources about their enemies and cannot read Russian to interact with primary sources.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Why are you certain of this? Please give evidence to back up this certainty. You claimed you weren’t familiar enough with them. Is this some projection?

    alcoholicorn ,

    Please give evidence to back up this certainty

    Here, lets test this, name something that is still widely reported by western sources about Iran, China, Cuba, Russia, or North Korea that serves the purpose of promoting hostile actions, that you know to be false. This should be trivial if you apply a little bit of critical thinking.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Why should I test your certainty if you’re already certain?

    Were you lying when you said you were certain? Otherwise, you should be able to produce the evidence that made you certainty.

    alcoholicorn ,

    I’m just going to vaguely gesture at your post history. You’d be referencing specific examples or relevant books or white papers if you had the level of familiarity required to do so.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Sorry, you don’t get to decide what I would do as evidence. You know absolutely nothing about what I would do.

    alcoholicorn ,

    You say that, but the alternative, that you’re only feigning ignorance on the subject and making vague assertions that Russian prisons must so incredibly worse than American prisons when you could actually show or just vaguely point in the direction of actual knowledge on the subject is not plausible.

    If I see someone in a wheelchair slip out and struggle to get back in, I’d say I’m certain they can’t walk very well. Yes it’s physically possible they’re just pretending, but it’s so unlikely as to not be useful to include in my understanding.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    making vague assertions that Russian prisons must so incredibly worse than American prisons

    I made no “vague assertions.” I said it outright. And it is backed up by the fact that Russia’s own police services claim a higher per-capita death rate in Russian prisons than is what is claimed in American prisons. I’d link you to that, but you’d probably make some claim that you’re certain about something or other, again with no evidence before the fact.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    This is what you said above:

    From what I’ve heard, some Russian prisons are just as bad as American prisons, locking people in solitary for months to years at a time or in large rooms full of small cages.

    If you’re more familiar with American prisons, then maybe what you have heard is not good enough and you should be equally familiar with both before making such statements.

    Russian prisons are far worse just going by per capita deaths.

    Read first, then comment.

    alcoholicorn ,

    Russian prisons are far worse just going by per capita deaths.

    Presumably, we are both working off non-academic, English-language sources targeting western audiences about Russian prisons. We don’t have credible numbers here.

    Hell we don’t even have credible numbers on American prisons given how they’re able to cook the books by moving people out of the prison before they’re declared dead or simply not reporting deaths to the Bureau Of Justice.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Why are you presuming that?

    alcoholicorn ,

    Because if you knew what you were talking about, you’d be citing specific examples or academic works, and if you read Russian, you’d have primary sources.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    What if I didn’t feel like doing either of those things? That is a possibility.

    alcoholicorn ,

    You’re not fooling anyone.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Not fooling anyone about what? I never made any claims. You did.

    GregorGizeh ,

    Are you okay dude?

    These last weeks and months I have noticed you going from a sort of grating but overall good dude with too much time on lemmy to this kind of childish, pointless bickering in various communities. As the kids say, maybe touch some grass once in a while?

    alcoholicorn ,

    People spend years in metal boxes without seeing another human, what we do to our prisoners literally causes PTSD and would be a war crime if done to POWs.

    And that’s the system acting entirely within the law as prescribed. There’s even more horrific cases of what guards regularly do to inmates on their own initiative.

    lemmylommy ,

    Yes, it’s bad. But you get all of that and then some in Russian penal colonies.

    Plopp ,

    But that “and then some” could be video games and snacks, you don’t know! /s

    Hubi ,
    @Hubi@feddit.org avatar

    You have zero idea how bad Russian prisons actually are. Beatings, starvations and rape are considered normal in many places. There’s a reason many convicts would rather get sent to war. I’d spent the next 10 years in an American prison before even one year in a Russian one.

    alcoholicorn ,

    Beatings, starvations and rape are considered normal in many places

    All of those things aren’t uncommon in American prisons

    Hubi ,
    @Hubi@feddit.org avatar

    Except in Russia it is systematic and perpetuated by the guards.

    alcoholicorn ,

    That’s also true in America. There’s also not a very clear distinction between actions initiated by the guards and the gangs in a lot of prisons.

    Hubi ,
    @Hubi@feddit.org avatar

    It’s nowhere near comparable. Us prisons are far from perfect but the things you’d experience in Russia are hell on earth.

    youtube.com/watch?v=gv6y74CJkH8

    nonailsleft ,

    What were the prisoner’s demands?

    What I’ve read: automatic weapons and a helicopter

    Also: their religion to rule over the world

    alcoholicorn ,

    Where did you read that?

    Not doubting it, ISIS are psychos, but it wasn’t in the article

    andrew_bidlaw ,
    @andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Can’t google it due to similarities, but it’s the second recent case of overtaking a prison by guys affilated with ISIS in a non-muslim region. With Krokus in mind it seems russian security forces struggle to prevent those, probably due to many of them rearranged to the ukrainian cause. If that war wouldn’t end soon, I suspect there would be even more sectarian violence in the future.

    MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

    NBC News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)Information for NBC News:
    > MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
    > Wikipedia about this source

    Search topics on Ground.Newshttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/islamist-prisoners-slash-guards-seize-hostages-russian-jail-rcna167923

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