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China tells NATO not to create chaos in Asia and rejects label of 'enabler' of Russia's Ukraine war

China accused NATO on Thursday of seeking security at the expense of others and told the alliance not to bring the same “chaos” to Asia, a reflection of its determination to oppose strengthening ties between NATO members and Asian nations such as Japan, South Korea and the Philippines.

The statement by a Foreign Ministry spokesperson came a day after NATO labeled China a “decisive enabler” of Russia’s war against Ukraine.

“NATO hyping up China’s responsibility on the Ukraine issue is unreasonable and has sinister motives,” spokesperson Lin Jian said at a daily briefing. He maintained that China has a fair and objective stance on the Ukraine issue.

China has broken with the United States and its European allies over the war in Ukraine, refusing to condemn Russia’s invasion or even to refer to it as an act of aggression in deference to Moscow. Its trade with Russia has grown since the invasion, at least partially offsetting the impact of Western sanctions.

Objection ,

The US fucked around with saber-rattling and scapegoating China for COVID (causing a massive rise in AAPI hate crimes btw) and now they’re finding out. Maybe if our leaders had tried deescalating tensions before shit hit the fan, then they could’ve been more successful in trying to isolate Russia, but no, always gotta have an enemy to justify the military-industrial complex, long-term consequences be damned.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

China is the origin of COVID-19. Their attempts to keep it quiet and subsequent refusal for actual openness and access made the pandemic worse. There is no scapegoating there.

And China is a direct threat to the USs hegemony. So they will off course see them as an adversary. China sees the US as their adversary in their path to growth. The sabre rattling goes both ways.

Objection ,

The COVID lab leak conspiracy theory was promoted by high level politicians and news outlets. The origin point is largely irrelevant as it could’ve happened anywhere. China’s response was much better at containing the virus than that of the US, which is why fewer people died per capita. Public opinion of China was majority favorable in 2018, so the argument that it’s just because they’re a competitor doesn’t hold water.

The steep drop in opinion that you see in those polls is only really explainable as, like I said, the product of a massively successful propaganda campaign, the reasons for which I stated, to distract from the horrible mishandling of COVID in the US and to justify defense spending.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Beijing exports more than $300m worth of dual-use items - those with both commercial and military applications - to Russia every month, according to an analysis of Chinese customs data by the Carnegie Endowment think tank.

It says the list includes what the US has designated as “high priority” items, which are necessary for making weapons, from drones to tanks.

RUSI, a UK-based think tank has also cautioned about the potential use of Chinese satellite technology for intelligence on Ukraine’s front line.

www.bbc.com/news/60571253

The only way they could enable Russia more is by directly sending them munitions.

CabbageRelish ,

They also trade on the same terms with literally everyone else. That’s called being neutral.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Please show me these terms on selling dual-use items to Ukraine.

CabbageRelish , (edited )

They’re literally one of Ukraine’s largest trading partners if not the largest. Has even all lead to goofy shit where you’ll see stuff like having both Ukrainian and Russian reviews on (previously?) uncontrolled equipment like night vision goggles on Chinese sites. Otherwise their general policy response to all this has been to tamp down on equipment exports like that for everyone, everywhere.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, well, if there are reviews they must be doing it. No one can possibly fake a review.

CabbageRelish , (edited )

I mean, if you explicitly want dual use stuff which is always a weird category: businessinsider.com/us-drones-glitching-getting-l…

Also can’t really see China turning off the taps on these exports considering they’re a world leader in it and it’s a pretty key tech.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s talking about DJI drones.

You can buy them on Amazon.

That is not the same as China selling directly to Russia and I think you know that.

Also, I explicitly want dual use stuff because that’s explicitly how they are being accused of aiding Russia.

CabbageRelish ,

What do you think dual use means?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Go back and re-read the first comment you replied to and then ask yourself if asking me that question now makes any sense.

And, again, Ukraine buying DJI drones on the public market is not the same as China directly selling Russia parts to make or repair weapons, which, again, I think you know.

nekandro ,

What exactly do you think exports are? A DJI drone is manufactured in China. If it’s bought through Amazon or Alibaba and shipped to Ukraine, that’s classified as an export. The public market is how imports and exports happen.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I see. You’re just going to pretend that China selling to a third party and that third party then selling to Ukraine is the same thing as China selling directly to Russia.

CabbageRelish ,

It’s quite easy for people who know what they’re doing to repurpose processors and components in consumer devices? And, you can also buy almost whatever cpu/component you want on Amazon too if you know what you’re looking for?

Otherwise, as I mentioned I don’t like it as a category because it leads to this silliness. At one point Israel was blocking all concrete imports to Gaza under dual use reasoning, and although I don’t like them one bit they kind of had a point. But, you also kinda need it if you want to build modern structures.

I’d assume NATO’s largely talking about machining equipment, electronics, and drones though. But, I don’t think they actually clarified anything? And while Ukraine itself probably doesn’t have much military use for the first two as any military plant would probably get hit, with how prominently drones have featured in this war they definitely fall under dual use.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And, again, they are not buying those drones directly from China.

If North Korea sells me a missile and I sell it to you, you are not buying arms from North Korea and North Korea is not selling arms to you.

CabbageRelish ,

I’m pretty sure they are literally buying tons of them from China. What are you even on. There aren’t any restrictions there because that’s part of their neutrality. Otherwise I’m done cause this is absurd.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

As long as you’re “pretty sure” they are, it must be true. There is no higher evidentiary standard.

Noobnarski ,

Just look up anything drone related on aliexpress and 90% of the reviews will most likely be Ukranian and Russian.

(I think you might only be able to see the nationality in the app)

While some of those might be fake, I think most of them are real.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

As long as you think most of the reviews for drones on AliExpress real, China is definitely selling the same dual use items of all kinds to Ukraine as it is to Russia, and I’m sure at the same price too.

Logic.

Noobnarski ,

If you tell me a reason why some AliExpress seller should create fake reviews which appear to come from ukraine or russia specifically, let me know.

You can never be 100% certain of anything.

For me all the signs point to china selling to whoever is buying stuff from them, especially since its not the government or even large conglomerates, but factories and companies of all sizes and shapes that sell drones and other dual use items.

As long as there isnt any blanket ban from the government they sell to everyone, because why would you make less profit if you could make more?

I dont know if there are big price differences when buying wholesale depending on which country you buy from, but there definetly arent any when buying single items.

I also think that china isnt supplying russia because it wants russia to win, but because it wants russia to be dependent on them.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You seem to be deliberately conflating what a Chinese company is doing and what the government of China is doing.

Omega_Man ,

That’s not a good thing.

thetreesaysbark ,

The only way they could enable Russia more is by directly sending them munitions.

It does seem rich for NATO to call China out on this when NATO members are sending Israel weapons and enabling a different genocide.

Maybe there’s some reason that’s different but I definitely don’t understand it off the top of my head.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

NATO members give Israel weapons to conduct a genocide therefore it’s okay if China is complicit in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine where they are conducting a genocide.

I see. Genocide is fine as long as two genocides cancel each other out.

thetreesaysbark ,

I can’t work out your tone from this text. Are you suggesting I’m saying it’s okay that either of these things happening?

I’d say that if NATO are willing to point out China funding Russia, they should also be capable of the self reflection to admit their own faults too.

I get that this wouldn’t work politically though. It’s just really frustrating to see such an obvious scream at a mirror.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry, I’m just so used to the frequent whataboutism. I understand what you’re saying now.

thetreesaysbark ,

No worries. I can see how it’d be interpreted like that. Especially given the amount of what aboutism we see in the comments.

I also struggle with Lemmy comments as I’m usually writing here tired in my ‘downtime’ between other responsibilities. You guys get the worst of me! Haha

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Which of these genocides did you hear about on TikTok, which has it’s algorithms dictated by the Chinese government?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I haven’t been a teenager since the 1990s, so I’ve never used TikTok. I think you can figure out the answer to your question from there.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

You’re not a teenager and you still think spewing nonsense emotions at strangers accomplishes something?

Jesus.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure what “nonsense emotions” are, but it’s kind of weird that you ask me about hearing about genocides on TikTok and I tell you I’ve never used TikTok, you act like you never said that and just move on to something else.

Let’s go back to you asking me which of the genocides I heard about on TikTok. Was your question answered in a satisfactory manner with my explanation that I’ve never used TikTok? If so, the proper reaction would be to say thank you.

nekandro ,

Ukraine literally praises the Chinese dual-use items that they received (drones, etc.) and calls them far superior to Western equivalents.

The problem is that if China were to pull out of trading with parties of the conflict, it would also deny Ukraine from much-needed dual-use equipment.

Meanwhile, Russia? They’ve spent decades figuring out how to skirt sanctions and their allies in Central Asia are more than happy to profit off of such dealings.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Ukraine literally praises the Chinese dual-use items that they received (drones, etc.) and calls them far superior to Western equivalents.

Please show them praising the ones the received directly from China rather than bought through a third party.

Omega_Man ,

Maybe China should stop sitting on the fence and support Ukraine outright?

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The statement by a Foreign Ministry spokesperson came a day after NATO labeled China a “decisive enabler” of Russia’s war against Ukraine.

“NATO hyping up China’s responsibility on the Ukraine issue is unreasonable and has sinister motives,” spokesperson Lin Jian said at a daily briefing.

China has broken with the United States and its European allies over the war in Ukraine, refusing to condemn Russia’s invasion or even to refer to it as an act of aggression in deference to Moscow.

The exercises are the first with Belarus, an ally of Russia, with which it shares a single-party system under President Alexander Lukashenko, whose regime cracked down brutally on 2020 mass protests against his rule,

China is a key player in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which includes a strong military element involving Russia and several Central Asian nations, India and, most recently, Belarus.

Ukraine has firmly rejected that, along with a Chinese peace proposal that makes no mention of the return of Ukrainian territory to the government in Kyiv.

The original article contains 565 words, the summary contains 169 words. Saved 70%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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