So if I go along with your logic to give the European’s a half-pass on the problem then why shouldn’t US Conservatives get one as well? If it wasn’t a problem and no one should have been worried then why is it only an issue that US Conservatives have to answer for?
I mean, the US has done a half-pass on China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran for decades — obviously geopolitics is a little more complicated than I think you’re giving credit. So I think that’s already a given, but I’m really not sure what you mean — are you excusing a race-to-the-bottom mindset? That two-wrongs-make-a-right?
But this is largely beside the point. At a time Western Europe maye have thought they were insulated. But Stoltenberg and Van Der Leyen are fully convinced these days they really are not and have rallied most of Europe to be in agreement. And despite the ultra-low risk to Russia actually attacking NATO countries, they’re investing in a new Ukraine under Zelenskyy’s leadership that isn’t a corrupt mess like previous administrations.
They “couldn’t” because Europe was relying on the U.S. to shitwreck them if they tried and they’re still relying on it right now in 2024. It’s why the Euro part of NATO freaks the fuck out every time the US gets even the tiniest bit wobbly about its participation.
Yes, the US would shitwreck them. You act like this is an utterly selfless act and not in our own national security interests. Need I remind you that NATO was created by the United States in the interests of the United States. So yes, member-nations have a guideline — not a bound obligation — to contribute further; and in the run-up to Russia’s rising aggression, that has notably increased. But let’s not pretend the economy of the US doesn’t benefit from the Military-Industrial Complex. Our economy has heavily-geared toward our R&D, military-production, and standing armies.
The only people getting wobbly about its participation are dumb-fuck short-sighted conservatives or folks on Kremlin payroll, like Trump. Even John Bolton thinks he’s insane over this because it’s utterly self-defeating.
Forget propping up Ukraine, they can’t even properly guarantee their own security; which again has been said by every single US President since Bill Clinton. They didn’t need to predict Ukraine prior to 2012 but they refused to even take it seriously for themselves!
You’re still dodging the point that NATO was collecting dust and nobody expected a full-blown land-invasion of Europe a-la Hitler invading Poland. Even now the risk is far-away but closer than expected — and now we do see Europe stepping up to the plate.
Honestly, what is your point? Have you not seen the massive jump in military-spending in Western Europe? The massive military aid packages to Ukraine? Your argument is years out of date and now overwhelmingly moot.
Yeah, because the US, the UK, and Canada got busy training and equipping Ukraine’s military after Crimea in 2014. All the while being ridiculed by the exact same people who are now pissed off that the US isn’t committing enough military power fast enough. Without the investments in training and equipping Ukraine’s military the Russian blitz would have absolutely led to the fall of Ukraine in the first 30 days.
Again, I’m not following the point you’re making here. Let’s review:
A half-hearted investment in Ukraine without ANY NATO troops was enough to STOP a full-blown takeover by Russia at their strongest.
Was Europe ever at risk of being invaded? — No
Is Europe now investing much more in military and aid to Ukraine? — Yes.
Has the United States directly benefited from protecting Ukraine both economically and geopoltically? — Yes.
Are conservatives arguments largely bullshit and self-defeating? Yes.
Thus in past years, it sounds like Europe has been correct in recognizing money could probably be better spent elsewhere for its people.
He said that in 2012 and two years later Russia proved that it wasn’t a good guess and then 8 years later, while the Euro’s were ridiculing the Biden Administration, Russia again proved that Romney was correct. History has proven that Romney was ridiculed by the ignorant, the stupid, and those whose pockets were stuffed with Rubles.
So what if Putin put green men in Ukraine 2-years-later? Talk about post-hoc fallacy? How has Russia remotely been a competitor with The United States? Romney would’ve been better to say Russia is a geopolitical threat for Eastern Europe. Russia whose economic GDP is smaller than the state of California alone and whose army has been revealed as a paper tiger —is not and never was a geopolitical threat since before the fall of the USSR and I’d LOVE any evidence to the contrary.
Every single comment you can make along the “insulated” line is doubly true for the United States so I won’t be giving Europe that requested half-pass.
Again yes Europe is insulated but the United States benefits economically from a secure Europe; the United States benefits economically from the military aid we provide to Ukraine. Without the United States — again of their own foreign policy geopolitical strategy — the stability of the entire global system collapses and with it our own economy. As much as it is a noble cause, it’s also frankly a selfish one. That’s on Republican dumbasses if they can’t understand that, but I think there is more kompromat among Republican circles than I think you give credit.
My comment should in no way be construed as support for US Conservatives and their lack of support for Ukraine. The United States should be sending more military power to Ukraine and they should be doing it faster. I’m just really tired of the Europeans getting a pass for their woeful lack of preparation even after the alarms bells started loudly clanging back in 2014.
I might agree with this between 2014-2020 more, but I’m less inclined to believe this is as big of a deal as you make it out to be now, especially in the backdrop of everything else I mentioned.