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Sunforged ,

Keep beating that war drum US “think tank”.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

If China doesn’t invade Taiwan there will be no war to be had

Rapidcreek OP ,

Ukraine enters the conversation

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Russia invades Ukraine

Tankies: How could NATO do this?

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

by provoking for years

OKRainbowKid ,

🤡

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

indeed.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

“You made me do this” isn’t just for abusive husbands I guess

OKRainbowKid ,

Great analogy, I’m stealing that.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

like every geopolitical relation works like your family

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Good one. The argument is still bullshit that disregards the agency of independent states to freely associate with whomever they choose.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

it also disregards the fact russia dont want to be crushed by the us without a fight. putin aint a saint but come on

Eheran ,

Instead of this"provoking" I assume NATO should have simply attacked instead? You know, like Russia did over and over again?

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

no, NATO/US should have not provoked, simple as.

russia wanted to join NATO over and over for years.

Eheran ,

Provoke how?

What about Russias multiple attacks?

When did Russia ever say they want to join NATO?

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

ex-nato head said they wanted to over and over again when putin got to power, in the early 2000s, im sure they kept trying for a while.

russias multiple attacks came much much later when it became clear they were actually hostile to russia, and because moscow is in a pretty delicate, difficult to defend location, before the aral mountains. even the soviets had this in mind, almost a century ago.

Eheran ,

Perhaps this read can refresh your memory on wars Russia was involved/started. Perhaps “much much later” turns into “always present”.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

if we are bringing other small and unrelated conflicts, perhaps this might give an idea of why russia would be hesitant to let NATO/US do whatever they please around them.

i suggest you look up the cia involvement i mentioned for more details on your original question though.

Eheran ,

Unrelated? We are specifically discussing Russia and how they, according to you, went to war “much later” and only after it was clear that “the West was against Russia”. While both were obviously not the case.

Calling those small… whatever you want.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

with the west. bad way to turn smaller conflicts into a big nasty war with nuclear threats going around. meddling and escalating and provoking is never the answer to any of that.

it does seem like its ending with russia taking a big bite of ukraine over though, all that hamfisted destruction for their enemies to accomplish almost nothing

Kusimulkku ,

Clearly if Ukraine didn’t want to be invaded they shouldn’t have dressed like that

Sunforged ,

China’s economy is both weak or strong depending on what narrative is being pushed.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Every economy in the world is slaved to perception. Doesn’t change the fact that in order for a war to happen in the South China Sea, the PRC will have to be the ones to start it.

Sunforged ,

Do you not see a problem with articles like this that justify their reasoning through bad faith?

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

The Chinese economy has been doing comparatively worse to how it had been doing previously. The article you sent indicates it’s been doing better than people thought it would be, but it still mentions China’s Albatross, the downturn in their real estate market. They could totally get through that downturn fine but investors are the most uselessly fickle people on the face of the earth

Sunforged ,

From what I have seen the downturn in the real estate market has been planned. The government over incentivized real estate growth so that private companies would over leverage and then the government could buy up these properties for pennies on the dollar to make them public. Of course western media is going to report on it like the sky is falling, it’s a communist country out maneuvering capitalism.

I have plenty of criticism for the CCP but the current real estate market really could be some 3d chess, and if so good for them. We will have to see how it plays out.

Eheran ,

Making it public? Where? Never heard that. They stay empty, people own them, it is essentially the only way for them to save on money (investment), hence this massive housing market with the tons of building shells just rotting. Not to mention the extreme quality issues with their tofu dreg.

Sunforged , (edited )

You dismiss the counter argument because you haven’t heard of it?

What the authorities refer to as “a new model” would replace the old emphasis on ownership with more rentals and use government funds to buy up bankrupt properties so that in time the government’s role in real estate would rise from 5% of the market at present to 30%.

Beijing will commit the equivalent of $280 billion a year for five years to buy up distressed private residential real estate developments and repurpose them as rental units. The plans also mention building still more units, some subsidized rentals, for a total of six million new units in 35 cities over the next five years. Beijing would impose severe restrictions on who could buy these apartments and would forbid purchasers from trading their units on the open market.

Eheran ,

Buying out bankrupt properties stabilizes the housing market, so makes sense that they do that.

Then renting/selling that space is not making it public…? What an I missing?

Sunforged , (edited )

What do you consider public housing? Is section 8 not public housing? You realize people in section 8 still pay rent.

Are you aware of what community land trusts are? It’s how I was able to become a home owner in my sleepy little hometown of Seattle. Government builds/buys the house, sells it at below market prices to people pre-approved for the program and its first come first sold. You as a homebuyer agree that the house will only be sold to other approved buyers in the program at a fixed rate (there is a small equity increase each year lived in the home to cover upkeep and improvements). The city technically owns the land my house is on, but idgaf because my mortgage is about $1,500 cheaper per month than what a unit of equal size would cost us to rent on the open market. I had no chance in hell of buying. This is the way housing should be for everyone, I had friends forced to move away because their previous years income was literally $1,000 over qualifying for the same program. So when I read “Beijing would impose severe restrictions on who could buy these apartments and would forbid purchasers from trading their units on the open market.” it sounds exactly like the program that has given my family a home. That’s fucking rad and I wish the US would do the same to expand public housing to 30% of the market, it would do a lot to negate the insanity that is our housing market.

So that is how public housing can be rented or sold and still be public housing.

Does it stabilize the market, yes that’s obviously the point. However it’s not a bail out ála US too big to fail. The businesses that are insolvent will deal with the consequences and the government gets rock bottom prices.

China is spending 8x more than the US on housing, while we are spending billions funding a genocide, while our homeless problems are magnitudes more than 8x China’s and your still trying to justify the war mongering of this “article” with their real estate market. This is not the problem the media is making it out to be.

Eheran ,

If that is what public means in this case, then sure, correct. To me, that simply means/meant something else. Like any other public area, where public does not mean government owned and otherwise identical, but instead that everyone can use it - hence public.

Sgt_choke_n_stroke ,

China gonna fall any minute bro

China’s real-estate is broke

China’s gonna invade Taiwan tomorrow.

China’s youth unemployment is the weakest its its ever been

China’s rammping up its military.

yawn

This is a US propaganda piece

Sunforged ,

Council on Foreign Relations

Co-chairs: Susan M. Gordon (25 years CIA) and Michael G. Mullen (17th chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff)

No way could this be propaganda dawg!

Kusimulkku , (edited )

No way people working in espionage and defence would have information about a foreign country and know about military matters and such

Wait

slaacaa ,

Biden, Feb 2022: “Russia will attack Ukraine”

Me, an enlightened intellectual: “Stop provoking war, you fearmongering CIA propagandist 😡”

circuscritic , (edited )

an enlightened intellectual?

lol

Hahahahahaha

Holy. Fuck.

Buhahahaha

Sunforged ,

I’m not arguing against Ukraine, it’s fucking dumb and a terrible strawman. These two situations couldn’t be more different.

Russian invaded Ukraine in 2014 and nobody did shit, of course they were going to do it again.

Do you know what the One China policy is? That’s American policy. Do you think a country can invade itself? Do you think it’s worth it to go to war with China over Taiwan?

You have no clue what your talking about and your strawman has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread.

Kusimulkku ,

Some of those do seem accurate

LaterRedditor ,

Comments look exactly like before Ukraine invasion. Just saying.

Siegfried ,

You mean there is an army of trolls saying that no invasion is being planned but in any case, its NATO’s fault and denouncing russophobiaTM sinophobiaTM cause, why not?

afraid_of_zombies ,

I remember right after the invasion started /r/worldnews was full of comments defending Russia and they were all these weird accounts. 8 years old with no comments prior. To the credit of the mods there every time I reported one they were blocked.

MyNamesNotRobert , (edited )

China’s has been “on the brink of something” for ages now. I don’t see icbms flying over my head right now so it’s probably not worth worrying about.

Siegfried ,

I guess that this goes more like, now that china’s economy is slowly shrinking they may realize that this is a now or never situation.

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

“This reality, paired with Xi’s unease with the status quo and his determination to make progress toward unification, increases the risk of a conflict,” wrote the task force, co-chaired by Mike Mullen, a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Sue Gordon, a former principal deputy director of national intelligence.

On Tuesday, China’s central bank lowered lending rates for the first time in 10 months, a cut widely regarded as another sign that Chinese policymakers are increasingly concerned about the country’s economic forecast.

While the two powers agreed to maintain lines of communications, Blinken’s trip reaffirmed divergent views on the future of Taiwan, with China’s top diplomat Wang Yi stating Beijing has no space for compromise or concession on the island.

When Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen met U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy in California in April, Chinese authorities announced possible inspections of cargo ships in the Taiwan Strait.

The task force called on the U.S. departments of State and Commerce to identify China’s “most vulnerable industries” and determine “which sanctions would apply maximum pressure on Beijing,” and then share those findings with the other members of the proposed alliance to take coordinated actions.

“The future of the world’s most economically critical region could very well hinge on whether the United States succeeds in deterring China and maintaining peace in the Taiwan Strait,” said the task force.

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