Not just the UNRWA report: Countless accounts of Israeli torture in Gaza

Plague_Doctor , 3 months ago

Why does this read like something out of Gravity’s Rainbow.

Linkerbaan , 3 months ago

Israel is a Nazi state.

Everyone supporting israel is a Nazi.

Dasus , 3 months ago

One still constantly sees people defending Israel and saying this isn’t a genocide and that Israel isn’t committing crimes against humanity.

I’d like to see one defend this.

Practices recorded by UNRWA include the use of a nail gun on prisoners’ knees, sexual abuse against both men and women and the insertion of what appears to be an electrified metal stick into prisoners’ rectums.

“They were beating me with an extendable metal bar. There was blood on my trousers and when they saw it, they beat me there. They used a nail gun on my knee. These nails were kept in my knee for about 24 hours until I was transported to Naqab prison,” one 26-year-old male told UNRWA of his 56 days in Israeli custody

He recounts being held in a group of more than 100 men who all endured days of “beatings, hunger and cold”, adding that they were kept blindfolded, not allowed to sleep and were forced to spend most of the day kneeling.

“If someone lifted the blindfold off their eyes,” he said, “he would be called over by the soldiers and beaten then strung up on the barbed wire fence.”

Another detained man told UNRWA: “They made me sit on something like a hot metal stick and it felt like fire – I have burns [in the anus]. The soldiers hit me with their shoes on my chest and used something like a metal stick that had a small nail on the side,” he said.

They asked us to drink from the toilet and made the dogs attack us,” he recalled, before describing how he had seen the bodies of “maybe nine” people who had been detained and killed, including one who had died after they had “put the electric stick up his [anus]. He got so sick, we saw worms coming out of his body and then he died,” he said

Khaled el-Nabreis from the Khan Younis refugee camp told Al Jazeera that he and several other men spent three days with no food or water, “only beatings, and when we slept they would cover us with wet blankets in the bitter cold” after they were detained by Israeli forces, taken to a location he did not recognise.

(three days is the upper end of the average of how long healthy humans can go without water, btw)

#Stacking the deck

In January, Israel accused several UNRWA employees of participating in the attacks of October 7

In a reported attempt to coerce confessions to support the accusations, Israeli interrogators tortured UNRWA staff they detained in Gaza, some of whom they took as they were carrying out their duties as staff of the international relief agency.

In detention, the UNRWA staff endured “severe physical beatings; waterboarding; exposure to dogs; threats of violence … rape, and electrocution; verbal and psychological abuse; threats of murder, injury or other harm to their family members; humiliating and degrading treatment; being forced to strip naked and subjected to photographs,” according to the report.

Israel has long begrudged the presence of UNRWA within Gaza. It has blamed the agency’s reports of its forces targeting civilian infrastructure, including its schools and first responder stations for the criticism during the International Court of Justice’s preliminary judgement on 26 January, when South Africa charged Israel with committing genocide during its war on Gaza. This prospect grows more likely as aid is blocked and the besieged population is tilted ever further towards famine.

As hunger worsens, with 15 children reported to have starved to death in recent days, UNRWA’s role in helping prevent what agencies are warning of a “humanitarian crisis” grows increasingly vital.

ad_on_is , 3 months ago

I’d like to see one defend this

Well, you see… according ro IDF, the hamas are hiding within these peoples anuses. So they need to electrify their rectums, to get these guys out there. I mean, it’s obvious, duuugh!

Aceticon , 3 months ago

It’s a Hamas tunnel!

JustZ , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Nobody with any credibility will defend these actions if they are true.

Personally, I do not find an “unpublished report” of nameless and dateless “accounts” from UNRWA, an agency that is Gaza’s largest employer–a significant number of whose employees and managers are supporters and accomplices to Hamas’s continued power in Gaza as a matter of basic math–to be very credible. Especially when it comes to such outrageous, unbelievable, claims.

And for me it’s doubly true when the coverage of the report (of the accounts) is from Qatari state media, funded by mega donors to Islamist nationalist movements. Notice how it cites to itself as verification of the report. Absolutely zero of the accounts have been independently verified, and if someone chimes in below with a link to other coverage, they will likely at least have the decency to say conspicuously that the accounts are unverified.

Fuck me for not believing it, right Hamas fans? It’s not like Hamas and it’s supporters would ever lie or exaggerate to perpetuate its own overt violations of international law as a part of a formal tactic known as lawfare! 🤡

What exactly does one call the coverage of a report of accounts, fourth hand information? Fifth?

Needless to say, if any of the accounts are found to be true, or to have been witnessed by other Israeli soldiers who failed to intervene, I have some hope that the perpetrators will be tried and convicted of their crimes. As opposed to in Gaza, where confessed perpetrators of overt war crimes get prizes.

Dasus , 3 months ago

There always has to be one IDF troll.

ohchr.org/…/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reporte…

GENEVA (19 February 2024) – UN experts today expressed alarm over credible allegations of egregious human rights violations to which Palestinian women and girls continue to be subjected in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

But to you, the entire rest of the world is magically in Hamas’ pocket because they call you out on this asinine bullshit.

Guess Israel is a better judge of weather Israel is committing warcrimes than the UN would be right? Like asking Trump if he’s guilty of anything.

Bombing women and children and you’re proud of it or so weakwilled you’ve bought into the propaganda saying that shooting the kids is fine, because they’re probably Hamas anyway.

Israel is a piece of shit fascist theocracy, and currently killing and raping innocents, and defending them is morally indefensible and will be seen mostly the same as WWII era Germans who didn’t oppose the holocaust.

JustZ , 3 months ago

Bud your link literally has nothing to do with this post and the specific allegations in this Al Jazeera coverage of a certain report. Seems like you’re emotions are pretty heavily wrapped up in all this. Good luck with that.

Now make a list of Hamas’s war crimes. And make a list of everyone who’s ever been prosecuted by Hamas for a war crime. The list is zero people long. How you going to sit here and condemn Israel when they at least have a justice system based on something other than total religious superstition and hysteria, which is what they have in Gaza?

Dasus , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

“If any of the accounts”

There’s plenty, which is what I just proved. Your trolling just relied on putting down the source, so there’s the UN experts.

That doesn’t change anything though, you IDF trolls tend to argue “UN is actually led by Hamas”.

“Now make a list of Hamas’ warcrimes”

First off, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Secondly, did your mom never teach you two wrongs don’t make a right?

Thirdly, the death toll in #Gaza has surpassed 30,000 — a large majority women and children.

But again, you’re just gonna argue that all those kids were Hamas.

Fourth, is the state of Israel a member of the UN or a terrorist organisation? Because there are standards for members of the UN, whereas for terrorist organisations…

There is no depth to what sort of mental gymnastics you’ll get up to defending Israel’s atrocities, because you can’t even conceive you’ve been brainwashed.

It turns my stomach.

Also you edited your earlier comment after my reply to it. Tsk tsk

JustZ , 3 months ago

Anything I edit is for grammar, spelling, clarity, or wit.

Dasus , 3 months ago

Sure it is, lil’ trollito.

That’s why you now ignore everything previously discussed. Because you argue that “if any of the reports are true” and then I link the UN Human Rights Office report about sexual assaults on Palestinians, and you conveniently ignore that.

You also ignore how you’re using whataboutism, a known propaganda technique, to try to say “well, but what about Hamas’ crimes”. But weirdly you don’t answer when I ask you is Israel a member of the UN or a terrorist organisation?

Just like I said, no limit to your mental gymnastics. IDF trolls, smh

You don’t feel the tiniest bit guilty defending a supposedly democratic state that is slaughtering children? Over 12,300 children have been killed in Gaza. Were they all Hamas members? Or perhaps just innocent Palestinians?

JustZ , 3 months ago

Bud your link did the same thing as the Al Jazeera article. It found reports troubling. It didn’t verify the reports. Hamas has as a tactic exaggerating and lying and the population helps them with it. It is working on you.

Oh boo hoo I didn’t answer your loaded and nonsense rhetorical question. Are you quizzing me on UN member states?

My position is pretty consistent I think. Not really any mental gymnastics involved. I have a consistent model.

I find your model inconsistent and ignorant. Do I feel guilty? No. I’m sad for the dead for sure but this was and remains part of Hamas’s plan after October 7. They should surrender but martyrdom is a revered tradition in Hamas’s Gaza, so they won’t. There answer to every ceasefire proposal is no. They could turn themselves in and scuttle the tunnels right now and not one more bomb would fall, but Hamas and their faithful literally want as many fellow civilians to die as possible. Look how well it has worked on you.

Tell me, is telling your countrymen that calls to evacuate are a hoax and to instead go stand on the roof of your building a legitimate tactic of resistance?

snek , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Tell me, is telling your countrymen that calls to evacuate are a hoax and to instead go stand on the roof of your building a legitimate tactic of resistance?

Do you have a source for this?

I asked you about 4 times now and you never provide any source. I think I will assume it’s just BS.

Dasus , 3 months ago

Oh boo hoo I didn’t answer your loaded and nonsense rhetorical question. Are you quizzing me on UN member states?

You’re trying to compare Israel and Hamas.

Thus we need to establish what you’re comparing.

Code of conduct?

So your standard for the expected conduct from a UN member state is the same as from a terrorist organisation?

Because Israel is breaking laws that UN member have agreed to respect.

There aren’t any credible reports of Israeli hostages being raped. Not one.

There’s tons of credible reports of Israelis abusing Palestinians.

Your position is consistent, yes. The position being “never question anything Israel is doing no matter how horrible it is”. The same as citizens of Nazi Germany.

Warning someone you’re gonna bomb them doesn’t absolve you of bombing them. Bombing civilians is a war crime no matter how many nice notes you give in advance.

They could turn themselves in and scuttle the tunnels right now and not one more bomb would fall

This kind of brainwashing is impossible to fight

this was and remains part of Hamas’s plan after October 7

“My country is genociding women and children on purpose but it’s all actually morally right, because revenge is moral and right.”

My god, you’re like one of those tiny-penis antifeminist bodybuilders, who get slapped by a tiny girl for behaving like an asshole and then you hit knock them on the ground with a fist to the face so hard they get permanent brain damage and then you look at everyone and go “she started it.”

It’s honestly baffling to me that people like you exist. The delusions which you labour under are fascinating. I don’t understand how some people can literally ignore reality to the extent you are.

You’re claiming that UN and 150+ states are spreading Hamas propaganda, but that Israel is the only one tellingthe truth despite a lack of any evidence and killing 12 300 children, which you consider morally defensible.

It’s sickening.

JustZ , 3 months ago

? UN and 150 states? There’s like 11 cosigner’s to South Africa’s UN petition, and they are all shit hole third world authoritarian states with their own atrocious human rights records.

No, I stand with virtually all of Washington DC and all of the foreign service and intelligence communities in the western world.

You are drinking propaganda of people trying to reelect Trump. Period.

I’m not comparing Israel and Hamas to say they should behave the same. I’m saying Hamas does not behave as a member of the international community and therefore it is not one. Gaza is unincorporated lawless territory that is basically free to anyone who can establish a legal system there. Hamas did so, even if is based on religious hysteria, and look what they used it for? Suicide bombings and mass shootings, year in year out.

It’s fine if Gaza wants to live like it’s the year 900. Stay the fuck in Gaza, then. Don’t take international money. Don’t smuggle in weapons and fighters and try and invade your neighbors. They couldn’t do that. So now they have to go.

And zero people will miss Hamas.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I continually condemn Israeli war crimes and call for the perpetrators to be prosecuted. And that might actually happen in Israel, because it’s not a lawless ungovernable hellhole, incapable of protecting human rights for anyone.

Dasus , 3 months ago

No, I stand with virtually all of Washington DC and all of the foreign service and intelligence communities in the western world.

You’re ridiculous. Like I said, there’s no fighting such brainwashing. So I’m not debating you anymore, I’m replying because I wish to see all the pathetic excuses you come up with, so you make a fool of yourself for all the world to see, and vocally support a genocide.

news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1144717

Member States adopted a resolution, demanding an “immediate humanitarian ceasefire”, the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages and well as “ensuring humanitarian access”.

It passed with a large majority of 153 in favour and 10 against, with 23 abstentions

How many is that, huh?

I’m not comparing Israel and Hamas to say they should behave the same. I’m saying Hamas does not behave as a member of the international community and therefore it is not one

No shit? Thus there is no way of trying to enforce Hamas, a terrorist organisation, to uphold it’s agreement with the UN; because it’s not a state nor a member of the UN.

Israel is.

Israel has committed to following the Geneva conventions. Something they are now purposefully breaking, by torturing and raping prisoners, attacking aid convoys, and killing over 12,300 children. ALL OF WHICH you try to excuse with “well Hamas had it coming”.

You don’t recognise that Hamas isn’t Palestine. Palestine is a nation. Hamas is not. Israel is using Hamas’ attacks as an excuse to genocide Palestine.

That’s about as proportional an ethical of a response as if hypothetically I dated your sister, then she dumped me, and for that, I torture and kill your entire family.

I continually condemn Israeli war crimes and call for the perpetrators to be prosecuted.

Okay so you admit they are genociding Palestine? You admit Israel is committing crimes against humanity? But you think that Israel itself will judge itself for these acts, and prosecute itself? Haiyaaa, like I said, no fighting brainwashing like that.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

These have included murder, intentional targeting of civilians, killing prisoners of war and surrendered combatants, indiscriminate attacks, collective punishment, starvation, the use of human shields, sexual violence and rape, torture, pillage, forced transfer, breach of medical neutrality, targeting journalists, attacking civilian and protected objects, wanton destruction, incitement to genocide, and genocide.

JustZ , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Look bud, you go to NY and spend some time at unga and then come talk about symbolic votes at the UN.

Right, no way to force Gaza. International law is based on custom and tradition and arguments that have worked in the past. Israel faces an unprecedented threat because of the tunnel system and lawfare, and both are the primary strategies by which Hamas perpetuates its criminal enterprise.

You mistake proportionality. I would say that u2ssing conventional weapons to destroy the enemy’s ability to repeat a conventional attack by destroying the mechanism of attack is always proportionate.

The tunnels are the mechanism and they are, for the most part, the target. That’s proportionate. Period. That the targets are surrounded by human shields does not go to proportionality, it goes to the rules of engagement.

No, I do not think that isolated war crimes equates to genocide. Genocide is a formal policy and an intentional enterprise. I do not think the locally directed rhetoric of extreme Israeli politicians who are about to lose office is evidence of formal policy when that rhetoric doesn’t match the facts on the ground. Myanmar was using helicopter strafing runs to gun down fleeing Rohyne women and children by the hundreds and napalming villages from which no rockets were ever launched and which had no tunnel shafts. The Nazis got too sad lining up women and babies by the thousands in a tench and then shooting them at close range so they built gas chambers, first mobile ones that could do 10 or 15 Jews at a time, then whole purpose-built facilities. And the perpetrators didn’t warn anyone.

This is more to me like how the Americans dropped leaflets before they dropped bombs when we struck Nazi positions in occupied France and elsewhere.

So no, I don’t think calling people on the telephone and asking them to leave while Israel bombs out the tunnels is either indiscriminate or genocidal.

But when Hamas goes and tells everyone those phone calls are a hoax and to go stand up on the roof, I do find that to be intentional genocide.

Dasus , 3 months ago

You’re calling UN resolutions passed with an overwhelming majority “symbolic”.

There’s no fighting your kind of brainwashing, just like I’ve said. You’ll get more and more anxious, with more and more “look, buds”, because you have to keep these delusions alive by literally dismissing everything anyone except Israel says.

More pathetic excuses about targeting Hamas, completely ignoring all the evidence a literal genocide. Just how do you live with yourself? I’m genuinely curious as to what goes on in your head when you decide to defend the slaughter of over 12,000 children.

You think asserting some of your regurgitated nonsense means anything while you call passed UN resolutions “symbolic”. Your opinion does not matter. The UN’s **does. **

I guess you might be Israeli, which would explain it a bit. I can see how it’d be really scary to stand up to the genocidal maniacs you share a country with. Much like Germans, during the Nazi regime.

And the perpetrators didn’t warn anyone.

You need to realise this is just downright stupid though. Do you think if I warned you that I’m gonna rape you, it’d make it alright? A war crime isn’t excused by “we dropped leaflets”.

Not to mention that the dropping of leaflets saying that they’re gonna get bombed, constitutes in itself a war crime. “In addition to its status as established customary law, the principle of civilian immunity has been codified in numerous treaties. One of the clearest expressions of the principle is set out in article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, which states: The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence, the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population, are prohibited.”

twitter.com/iara_modarelli/…/1714392142645174667aljazeera.com/…/israel-gaza-what-international-la…

“As long as Hamas does not release the hostages in its hands - the only thing that needs to enter Gaza are hundreds of tons of explosives from the Air Force, not an ounce of humanitarian aid.”

• Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir in Oct 2023

timesofisrael.com/…/defense-minister-announces-co…

“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” - Defense Minister Yoav Gallant

These are objectively verified statements of Israeli officials. That is literally genocidal rhetoric, which is threatening war crimes, and then goes on to commit war crimes.

It’s literally quite incredible how delusional and brainwashed you have to be to consider what is going on in Gaza to be a justified, “proportional” response. At least WWII Germans realised to be ashamed.

amnesty.org/…/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-i…

ohchr.org/…/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protectio…

#The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza.

But you’ll just repeat the same sad propaganda again, iterating how UN is not to be believed in, how they don’t matter and how anything that speaks against Israel is “Hamas” propaganda and how those 12 000 kids actually deserved to die.

That sort of behaviour is… so depressing to me. I can’t believe any human would ever think like that, yet you constantly keep pretending you do.

JustZ , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

They found it plausible under a standard presumption that all facts alleged were true. South Africa’s complaint is filled with circular reasoning and citations to sources that don’t say with South Africa supposes they say. Such as article after article of unconfirmed reports.

Plausibility is not probability.

Kids die in war. Yes, it’s very sad, and I see how upset you are. We get it, you must be a very good person. I’m sorry Hamas made the news so upsetting. All this horseshit you’re talking about me being some person who thinks 12,000 kids deserve to die is you being small and emotional.

Hmm. The international tradition on allied leafleting is that is was a war crime? That’s interesting. And yet it wasn’t a war crime that anybody got hung for, is it? Probably has something to do with the allies not being the people who put kids in harms way. Gaza could have kept to itself or elected someone other than Hamas (who immediately cancelled all future elections) and it would have been a post-Arab-spring young developing nation right now. We could have done as we did when South Africa finally came around, and sent our best and brightest there to help draft a new Constitution. Instead it chose a religious dictatorship to whom the concept of a written constitution of laws is religious infidelity, punishable by death. Instead, Gaza chose suicide bombings, mass shootings of civilians, and Hamas® brand Martyrdom,™ aka “instead of evacuating let’s all have family gatherings and silence our cell phones so we can protect our brave Hamas heroes hiding under our house!”

You can take all 12,000 kids and put them right at the foot of Hamas’s leadership of Gaza. I’m sure they’d have of “oh no it’s the consequences of our own actions” before they revert to your logic of “why would Joe Biden do this?”

Dasus , 3 months ago

Now you’re pretending there are no objective facts, like the OVER 12000 DEAD CHILDREN? That all these are “alleged” things?

Pick up a dictionary, IDF troll.

plausible /ˈplɔːzɪbl/ adjective (of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.

The UN does not state that something is PROBABLE without good cause, unlike you, who claim that nothing can be proved from anything and nothing is real unless the IDF says it is, and that every objective fact we have isnt’ actually an objective fact.

You’re literally defending the massacre of children. How do you sleep at night?

This isn’t war. This is a genocide. Those words have meanings, and the whole world, the UNITED NATIONS OF EARTH, have deemed it PROBABLE that Israel is committing a genocide, with an overwhelming majority.

The Allies bombed military targets, not an open air prison. Do you think it may have been actually a bit silly if they had warned Germany of the bombs they were gonna drop? Especially because dropping those leaflets would’ve required an additional flight to drop them, putting the planes in danger? The only warnings were given to Japan about nukes, and there were no conventions about nukes when they were invented. Those came after WWII.

Keep repeating your propaganda, just like the Nazis did. Every comment you leave is more delusional and every single one is unremovable in the long run, as even if you delete them, they are already archived. Like I said, I’m not debating you. You’re a trolly little propaganda bot who keeps ignoring all the actual evidence and can’t provide any credible sources for any of his rhetoric. Your comments are here so there’s objective proof that you’re defending a genocide, and that will never go away.

“It’s all Hamas’ fault, they made us do this”. Exactly what the Nazis said about the Jews.

Honestly, it’s beyond ironic that Israel is the one to commit an act like this. And to think there are still people alive who were in concentration camps. It beggars belief.

hrw.org/…/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-leban…hrw.org/…/palestine-unlawful-israeli-airstrikes-k…hrw.org/…/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-…hrw.org/…/gaza-israeli-attacks-blockade-devastati…hrw.org/…/israel-rafah-evacuation-plans-catastrop…justsecurity.org/…/on-civilians-return-to-north-g…

socialeurope.eu/israels-evacuation-order-violates…

Stomp your foot and cry all you want, you’re still the baddies, and every single comment you leave proves me more and more right, and showcases it to everyone reading this.

JustZ , 3 months ago

Your first sentence immediately you’re putting words in my mouth again. Are you competent or what?

Bud, you can find anything on the internet. Your link spam is not persuasive.

Maybe if you let your lizard brain stop straw manning me for five seconds you’ll realize you’re tilting at windmills.

And dude lol at your attempt at deciphering the UN order. Honestly what do you do for work and what’s your education because it’s obviously not this. Why you pretending?

Dasus , 3 months ago

I’ve said several times, you’re not someone who can be persuaded. That’s the only thing I’m trying to persuade people of. Hopefully you’d realise that too, but as mentioned previously, you’re not a person who can change their mind.

The point is to showcase just how strong Israeli propaganda is.

Currently, you’re literally chanting “UN doesn’t matter, OCHR doesn’t matter, human rights don’t matter, nothing can ever be proved and everything online is wrong, no reporters should be trusted (unless they’re pro-Israel) and in fact, facts don’t actually exist, anywhere, at all!”

What exactly would it take for you to admit that Israel is committing several war crimes, the worst of which is the genocide of Palestinians? This is rhetorical, because you’re literally unable to answer that, as there is no amount of evidence that would ever change your mind, because you don’t base your opinion on facts, you base it on what you get told.

Weird how “you can find anything on the internet”, but you can’t seem to find anyone who disagrees with the UNITED NATIONS and the Human Rights Watch. Guess “anything” doesn’t include “support for my propaganda”, huh? I mean, ofc it does, but even you realise how ridiculous those propaganda sites would be in comparison to the Human Rights Watch, United Nations, International Court of Justice and the OCHR.

For instance you trying to assert that you, a random IDF trollito on Lemmy would know better than Raz Segal, the associate professor of holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University, who says:

Perpetrators of genocide rarely express their intentions in direct and explicit ways, so courts are left to infer such intent through an analysis of state actions or leaked memoranda. In the case of Israel’s genocidal assault on Gaza, however, as the Law for Palestine database shows, people with command authority have been making genocidal statements repeatedly over the past three months.

They have dehumanised Palestinians in their rhetoric, and painted the population in Gaza, as a whole, as Israel’s enemy. Bolstered by the hubris of settler colonial power and the knowledge that it has killed, maimed, destroyed, expelled, humiliated, imprisoned and dispossessed with more than seven decades of impunity and by the continued material and moral support of the United States, Israelis are explicit and unashamed about their genocidal intent because they have imagined and prosecuted a war against people who they see as colonised “savages”.

Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant described Palestinians precisely in this way, as “human animals”, in his proclamation of the “total siege” on October 9. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described Gaza as “the city of evil” on October 7, and then on December 24, framed Israel’s attack as a fight against “monsters”. “This is a battle, not only of Israel against these barbarians, it is a battle of civilisation against barbarism,” he said.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog said a few weeks earlier, on December 5, that Israel’s attack on Gaza is “a war that is intended, really, truly, to save western civilisation… [from] an empire of evil”.

Netanyahu and other senior Israeli ministers have left no doubt that saving “Western civilisation” requires the total destruction of the Palestinians in Gaza by describing them as the Biblical people of Amalek – a people perceived in whole as an enemy that must be destroyed – and as Nazis.

How does it feel being on the wrong side of history?

snek , 3 months ago

I am so disappointed at @JustZ. We both like crows, we both like John Donne, we both share a lot probably, yet Palestinians like me are okay to starve and kill in his head. I would not feel safe meeting him in person ever. I don’t think he would hurt me, but I think if I got sniped in the head right next to him, he would just say “HAMAS” and walk away.

Meanwhile, Israel is starving Gazans to death.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8fb4e4d4-3e10-4ad2-bdc4-08bfd35400cd.png

federatingIsTooHard , 3 months ago

Pick up a dictionary, IDF troll.

look. i butt heads with that user, too. i think they are blinded by their biases, and end up spreading false and misleading information due to that fact. BUT this factional-trolling accusation shit has got to stop. it creates a toxic environment. it’s a personal attack, which is prohibited in most of the communities on .world, but more than that, it has become so ubiquitous it is also functioning as a thought-terminating cliche.

please, please, don’t do this.

i can’t count how many time’s i’ve been called a republican shill, a russian shill, a hamas shill, or a bot. i’ve even emailed the admins of .world, asking them to try to reign this in. i don’t know what to do about it, but i am asking you to join me and elevate the discourse just a little.

Dasus , 3 months ago

You know what has got to stop?

People thinking any mention of a personal attribute of the other person is an “ad hominem.”

That’s not what “argumentum ad hominem” means.

Here’s an example.

“You are wrong, because [a long list of logic, with good supporting evidence from credible sources], you [enterinsult].”

That is not an ad hominem. Here’s an example of what would be:

“You are wrong, because you are a [enterinsult.]”

I’m not inventing this shit. I’m not generalising. He is an Israeli person by all accounts, and he’s touting IDF propaganda. So in this case, it is actually factual as well. In most cases, people are using ad hominem, because they’re going “no, we don’t need to listen to you, because you are a [enterfactioninsult]”. That IS an ad hominem. Deconstructing the actual rhetoric used by the IDF and calling the other person a troll for refusing to engage with any of the evidence is actually, factual, and not the argument I’m making.

“Elevate the discourse.”

You know I’m so tired of this. I’m honestly tired of people getting more worked up about a mild insult online than they are of actual genocide going on. If I could count the times someone’s gotten mad and used that as an excuse to highroad me, oh boy, it’d be in the tens of thousands. It’s ridiculous. There are far more pressing issues in the world than trying “not cuss” at other people.

It’s infuriating honestly. Especially when it’s a really mild and accurate “insulting” description from a comment in which I actually make a proper argument, with sources. In my opinion, that sort of “no we can’t use that kind of language” is exactly the sort of attitude why bad people are in power in the world. Because people think “you should always respect the person you’re talking to.” Fuck that. I’m not going to respect a person who is defending the genocide of children. No, sir, I will not.

And we shouldn’t respect the billionaires and other fuckers either. There’s the disconnect. We all want to live in a good world, and want everyone to be respectful and respectable, but not everyone is, and the people who keep exploiting every normal, respectable person, don’t deserve respect. And we should make it very clear to them.

The paradox of tolerance states that if a society’s practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.

federatingIsTooHard , 3 months ago

People thinking any mention of a personal attribute of the other person is an “ad hominem.”

did you find an allusion to ad hominem in my comment somewhere?

Dasus , 3 months ago

I did, yes.

federatingIsTooHard , 3 months ago

can you show where that was?

Dasus , 3 months ago

Honestly, your way of replying is so fucking annoying, that I prefer not to.

You got mad and left me like 6 replies, and you think you’re “elevating the discourse”?

Don’t teach your father to fuck.

federatingIsTooHard , 3 months ago

You got mad

no, i didn’t.

federatingIsTooHard , 3 months ago

you think you’re “elevating the discourse”?

yea. i didn’t make this personal. i am explaining myself as best i can and not assuming your motivation.

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JustZ , 3 months ago

And by the way, it’s not just me. When one of the permanent members of the security council comes out and says they’re going to veto a controversial resolution, everyone calls the ensuing vote symbolic because everyone gets to vote without consequence.

You are literally right now holding up the vote as a symbol.

And also, it’s not just me, virtually everyone of consequence in US government. Governing is hard work. Bless your heart, I don’t think you’re equipped for it.

Anyway, what’s your brilliant proposal for lasting peace in Gaza?

Dasus , 3 months ago

You’re not someone who can be persuaded. That’s the only thing I’m trying to persuade people of. Hopefully you’d realise that too, but as mentioned previously, you’re not a person who can change their mind.

The point is to showcase just how strong Israeli propaganda is.

Currently, you’re literally chanting “UN doesn’t matter, OCHR doesn’t matter, human rights don’t matter, nothing can ever be proved and everything online is wrong, no reporters should be trusted (unless they’re pro-Israel) and in fact, facts don’t actually exist, anywhere, at all!”

What exactly would it take for you to admit that Israel is committing several war crimes, the worst of which is the genocide of Palestinians? This is rhetorical, because you’re literally unable to answer that, as there is no amount of evidence that would ever change your mind, because you don’t base your opinion on facts, you base it on what you get told.

Weird how “you can find anything on the internet”, but you can’t seem to find anyone who disagrees with the UNITED NATIONS and the Human Rights Watch. Guess “anything” doesn’t include “support for my propaganda”, huh? I mean, ofc it does, but even you realise how ridiculous those propaganda sites would be in comparison to the Human Rights Watch, United Nations, International Court of Justice and the OCHR.

For instance you trying to assert that you, a random IDF trollito on Lemmy would know better than Raz Segal, the associate professor of holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University, who says:

Perpetrators of genocide rarely express their intentions in direct and explicit ways, so courts are left to infer such intent through an analysis of state actions or leaked memoranda. In the case of Israel’s genocidal assault on Gaza, however, as the Law for Palestine database shows, people with command authority have been making genocidal statements repeatedly over the past three months.

They have dehumanised Palestinians in their rhetoric, and painted the population in Gaza, as a whole, as Israel’s enemy. Bolstered by the hubris of settler colonial power and the knowledge that it has killed, maimed, destroyed, expelled, humiliated, imprisoned and dispossessed with more than seven decades of impunity and by the continued material and moral support of the United States, Israelis are explicit and unashamed about their genocidal intent because they have imagined and prosecuted a war against people who they see as colonised “savages”.

Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant described Palestinians precisely in this way, as “human animals”, in his proclamation of the “total siege” on October 9. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described Gaza as “the city of evil” on October 7, and then on December 24, framed Israel’s attack as a fight against “monsters”. “This is a battle, not only of Israel against these barbarians, it is a battle of civilisation against barbarism,” he said.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog said a few weeks earlier, on December 5, that Israel’s attack on Gaza is “a war that is intended, really, truly, to save western civilisation… [from] an empire of evil”.

Netanyahu and other senior Israeli ministers have left no doubt that saving “Western civilisation” requires the total destruction of the Palestinians in Gaza by describing them as the Biblical people of Amalek – a people perceived in whole as an enemy that must be destroyed – and as Nazis.

How does it feel being on the wrong side of history?

snek , 3 months ago

shit hole

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a4e75a4a-8372-4890-9a54-ac0e93aaae02.jpeg

juicy OP , 3 months ago

All of the mainstream media outlets have published articles on the UNWRA report. This is just the most recent coverage.

smcool , 3 months ago

They just report them, that doesn’t verify the content. Especially since all report it as not verified.

JustZ , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Here’s the last sentence of CNN’s article on this:

CNN cannot confirm the allegations.

That’s legitimate journalism.

Oh look it’s exactly what I said it would say.

febra , 3 months ago

Lol Al Jazeera is a very reputable organization

JustZ , 3 months ago

Ha. That’s a good one!

Sometimes, for some things, they have good coverage. They are playing to their audience and they are as bad as Fox News, which many people think is a very reputable organization.

I’ll tell you what I would tell them, just because you like what they say doesn’t mean they’re reputable.

Pilferjinx , 3 months ago

They know it’s a genocide and they support it. The smart ones don’t say it out loud.