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FRAnkly ,

What about soy derivates being used as estrogens by the body suppressing testosterone. Plus to keep soy fields you have to spray more pesticides than everything else.

StaySquared ,

Thank God for trees. Amirite?

The1Morrigan ,

Who cares how much meat I eat when there’s a billion cars, 2 billion factories and 1000 greedy billionaires burning the world to the ground?

PlantbasedChe ,

Yes. Power abuse over suposed inferior species. It is “yummie” for doers

Rand0mA ,

I’m enough of a cu*t as it is. If I went vegan, people wouldn’t stand me, I just think I’d lose the friends I have left.

CCatMan ,

I don’t they they are your friends if what you choose to eat is an issue.

Rand0mA ,

You’ve missed the point. Vegans are always banging on about being vegan with the superiority complex on food that comes with it. Essentially it would make me more of a cu*t… Besides… I love meat with most meals.

And009 ,

No one talks about meat bringing peace. They died for something important you see

Rand0mA ,

Veganism would not being peace in any world you want to imagine. People would sooner be eating bugs.

jjjalljs ,

I was just talking about this idea with a friend. We decided it would be political suicide in the US for anyone to suggest eating less meat.

People would literally rather see the world burn than give up their chicken nuggets.

I’m not even hardcore vegetarian. I looked at the situation and agreed it’s hard to ethically justify eating meat. So I started eating less. I’m down to pretty much just “sometimes I get a pizza slice with a meat topping if there’s nothing good without meat”. Maybe I’ll cut that out too one day.

gmtom ,

If you could tell the average American, with 100% certainty and undeniable proof that going vegan for a month would save the lives of 1,000 children, they would go out, buy as much meat as possible and eat it smugly in front of you and ask you repeatedly if it’s triggering you.

TheObserver ,

American here can confirm.

CCatMan ,

I really don’t think that’s how all of America is.

pjnick ,

Unfortunately it’s probably something like 1 in 8.

CCatMan ,

The loudest Americans 😕

Hypnoctopus ,
@Hypnoctopus@lemmy.ml avatar

Thank you for reducing your meat consumption. I know you can go all the way with it.

stappern ,

No shit…

INHALE_VEGETABLES ,

Heh

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

If you only eat meat, yeah constipation is very likely . Though the opposite also happens.

smellythief ,

I haven’t clicked through, but I bet they meant “producing meat.”

MenacingPerson ,

Does that change anything? It is only produced because people use it.

smellythief ,

Using the correct title would have made clear that it wasnt referring to the flatulence of the eater though. 🤔

IndictEvolution ,
@IndictEvolution@lemmy.world avatar

Can’t we all just agree 8 billion people is silly? Think about how much of it is just completely redundant. The main focus really should be massive population reduction.

Edit: Also, no, I don’t mean killing off anyone, just reducing birth rates will do fine. We know even just a simple high school education reduces birth rates.

MisterCreamyShits ,

But then the ever expanding capitalist machine would die off and the oligarchy class simply cannot have that, they need slaves, billions of them.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

We have resources for >10 billion to live well and sustainably. We failed to do that.

IndictEvolution ,
@IndictEvolution@lemmy.world avatar

I can probably fit like 10 people in my house if I tried hard enough, so I guess that’s what I should do, right? Quantity over quality, right? We just can’t have enough suffering.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

That’s why I put the “well” in the comment though?

IndictEvolution ,
@IndictEvolution@lemmy.world avatar

Yes I guess I skipped over that, sorry. I would, however, still argue it would not make sense to have that many redundant humans, and that wellness is hard to measure since society does not allow people to express how they truly feel about things.

gmtom ,

This is the core argument to eco-fascism.

IndictEvolution ,
@IndictEvolution@lemmy.world avatar

Reducing birthrates is not genocide. As long as the population continues to increase, human life will be more and more devalued as we continue to choose quantity over quality of life because of a DNA delusion.

jasondj ,

Who gets to have kids?

The poor? The blacks? The Jews?

Forcibly reducing birthrights is absolutely genocide. Unless you are talking solely of reducing birth rates within your own ethnic group…I wouldn’t call Chinas “one-child” policy genocide, per se, but it absolutely paved the way for systemic infanticide. And that’s not really significantly better.

IndictEvolution ,
@IndictEvolution@lemmy.world avatar

Definitely not poor people. I think requiring a license to have children would not be a bad idea. I would not acknowledge reproduction as a human right, but instead as a form of rape.

I am also not bothered by infanticide as long as it is done humanely, and assuming both parents do not want the child.

gmtom ,

It literally is genocide, by definition. I know you think you are correct and moral, just like everyone else that ends up thinking stuff like this, but you’re not. You need serious psychiatric help as soon possible.

Jim_Greece ,
@Jim_Greece@lemmy.world avatar

ok

BeeOneTwoThree ,

People can’t think critically over why they prefer meat over vegetables. They just think they do it because hurr durr meat tastes better or you need protines.

If they actually think about the fact that they have been eating meat for every meal since they were a child they might understand that it is just a habit they have formed.

I strongly suggest to those people to try to have 1 dinner a week without meat or fish. It has nothing todo about taste and all about habits and what you are used to.

Try to challenge yourself a little bit and you might get a better perspective over these things.

the_kalash ,

If they actually think about the fact that they have been eating meat for every meal since they were a child they might understand that it is just a habit they have formed

What utter non-sense is this? Who eats meat with every single dish??? You make it sound like it’s some kind of addiction.

People just like meat because it’s tasty. No mystery here.

BeeOneTwoThree ,

Most people I know have meat or fish to every dinner.

Yes meat is tasty, but so is a lot of vegiterian dishes``

stackcheese ,

Nah Corporations and industries creates 1000x more greenhouse gases than meat and agriculture.

IndictEvolution ,
@IndictEvolution@lemmy.world avatar

And who supports these corporations and industries by buying their shit?

Little8Lost ,

one time i was sad that i buyed a product from nestle, i still ate it because i notiden only after opening but still. I did not like it ;.;

Rodeo ,

“Companies have customers and therefore they have no responsibility to climate change whatsoever. They don’t have to manage their waste, they can dump recyclables into the landfill, and it’s the customers fault!”

Fuck off with this shit.

IndictEvolution ,
@IndictEvolution@lemmy.world avatar

So you think there is some perfect way to manage waste? Because if you can understand that’s not the case, then you can understand that the more people like YOU support these companies, the more waste there will be. This really is not complicated. I know the average person is adamant about not taking any responsibility and shifting it onto politicians and corporations, but that’s the kind of retarded thinking that got us to 8 billion redundant people.

mayo ,
@mayo@lemmy.world avatar

The maximum number of people who care enough about this to change their lifestyle is the number of people who are doing it right now. How do you increase that number? I can’t even convince my family to cut down on meat. My wealthy friends don’t give a shit. My right wing friends care even less.

People do not like change. Least favourite part of my job is trying to convince something they need to change their habits.

Companies can be regulated and fined. The government is supposed to represent the people, I’d rather them penalize companies than me.

SeaJ ,

Meat and agriculture are part of the greenhouse gasses that corporations emit…

kenbw2 ,

If you choose to drive a car and burn 10 litres of fuel, the responsibility is on you, not the oil company that produced it for you

SpookyBogMonster ,
@SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml avatar

Exactly. While certain dietary habits will most certainly have to shift if we’re to adequately tackle climate change, the framing of this as “everyone should just go vegan” falsely puts the onus on individual consumers to solve what is ultimately a systemic problem of production.

Jazsta ,

It’s time for this unfortunate headline to go away. I see a variation of this posted in nearly every thread about climate and emissions, a complex topic that the average person understandably doesn’t know much about beyond some headline that stuck with them. Snopes has a good article debunking The Guardian’s grossly misleading headline.

To see the actual sources of GHG emissions, at least in the US, the EPA has good resources. In short, agriculture is 10% (methane from cows fits here), transportation is 28%, electric power generation is 25% (fossil fuel power plants generating electricity), residential and commercial buildings are 13% (in practice, the building sector overall is about a third of emissions after attributing the emissions from the electric power slice. Residential and commercial buildings use 75% of the power generated in the US), and finally industry is 23% (again, a bit more factoring in their share of the electric power emissions. Industry uses about a quarter of all power in the US).

As you can see, emissions, or at least GHG emissions, are spread across the economy. Some industries are heavy polluters (e.g. cement manufacturing), but that’s ultimately to make products for the market, even if they do have plenty of room to improve efficiency and reduce emissions, as do all other areas of the economy, especially buildings.

decripter37 , (edited )

Since it isn’t mentioned in the article, here is the reference: paper (2014)

In the study it even shows how driving a 10 years car for 6000 miles is rougly two years of saved emission with a meat->vegan switch.

I don’t know, changing dietary is obviously good for the health, but these results seems to make pretty useless changes, use the bike and save twice as much.

EDIT: There is a new paper (2023), it is in a reply.

GlycineMaxFTW ,

You can do both

TWeaK ,

A 2023 news article about a study published in 2014.

smellythief ,

no

TWeaK ,

Thanks for the correction. The author of this paper matches up with the one mentioned in the article.

However so does the other article, and it doesn’t look like the recent article really presents anything new.

joonazan ,

I calculated at one point that if you ride a bike instead of a car but replenish the calories with pure beef, it is better to ride the car. So diet matters.

smellythief ,

The first line in the article says a “new study.” So are you sure it’s not this paper? Also, have to say the paper title is kind of a duh moment.

decripter37 ,

Thanks I didn’t find the new one!

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

From the way you worded it, it sounds like not eating meat is five times as effective than not driving in the same time period.

Though we can always do both to any degree we can.

decripter37 ,

Sorry for the botchered English, it’s not my first language, as you may have guessed.

gmtom ,

I don’t drive so maybe I just don’t have context but 6,000 miles seems like A LOT.

decripter37 ,

On a quick search, it seems that ~10000 is the average miles per year.

Techmaster ,

On the flip side, meat tastes 20x better than vegetables.

SeaJ ,

What shitty vegetables are you eating, Mr/Mrs Coronary?

Techmaster ,

Steaks, hamburgers, hot dogs, tacos, you know, the usual.

reev ,

I mean I eat all that stuff too and don’t eat meat.

MaxMouseOCX ,

The world’s best vegetable dish is average at best compared to a dish that includes meat.

That’s an opinion based on my taste, and an opinion a lot of omnivores share, it isn’t wrong… Neither is it right for you - however it does seem to be the opinion most hold.

Noedel ,

Meat tastes like nothing special if it’s not salted, marinated or eaten with gravy.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

True for steaks, chicken, etc, but not true for fish IMO.

That said, I think it’s not true that one is inherently better than the other. Everyone has preferences of course but I think people have been sold this idea that it’s not a real meal if meat isn’t involved and damn you’re missing out on so much good stuff if you have that mentality

MisterCreamyShits ,

This is because your vegetables are shit. Leave the US and veggies taste amazing.

bommelding ,

I always thought that this was true but after being a vegetarian for 2 years whenever i eat meat (because there is no other choice or something) I find it doesn’t taste “that good” anymore.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

No food is “problem free” and, much like normal agriculture where different crops cause different problems, different meats (poultry, pig, cow) cause different problems and have different costs.

Are insects a valid protein source? Apparently yes! Am I willing to eat them? Maybe! I’ve never had the chance to try any, none of the markets I go to stock anything like that.

Ditching all meats for soy and other vegetal proteins? Doable, but more expensive than eating chicken or pig, in my case. Fully getting rid of eggs and milk is also problematic for me because they are even cheaper than the meat itself.

You know what would be really funny? If cattle ranchers were forced to come up with big diapers for all the cows, harvesting the methane and turning that into somewhat cheap extra gas for cooking.

usernamesAreTricky ,

There’s an order-of-magnitude difference here. The worse case production of crops for human consumption comes out ahead even compared to best case production of animal products

Plant-based foods have a significantly smaller footprint on the environment than animal-based foods. Even the least sustainable vegetables and cereals cause less environmental harm than the lowest impact meat and dairy products [9].

www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/8/1614/htm

In terms of cost:

It found that in high-income countries:

• Vegan diets were the most affordable and reduced food costs by up to one third.

• Vegetarian diets were a close second.

• Flexitarian diets with low amounts of meat and dairy reduced costs by 14%.

• By contrast, pescatarian diets increased costs by up to 2%.

ox.ac.uk/…/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-…

In terms of biogas, here’s a video looking at hog farming and talks about the problems with biogas at this point in the video:

youtu.be/WsUNylsiDH8?t=825

PipedLinkBot ,

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/WsUNylsiDH8?t=825

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Gullible ,

Sincere question, is it difficult to create harvest methane from animals? Most livestock basically never sees the sun so it’s not like there’s an interminable area to harvest from, and stories of farmyard methane fires aren’t exactly uncommon so the concentration is there.

Noedel ,

I’m a part time vegan and plant protein is quite a bit cheaper. Tofu costs nothing from the Asian shop and it’s super versatile. It takes some time to learn how to cook.

Soy milk, beans, chickpeas and lentils are also very cheap.

It’s just the beyond burgers and stuff that are horrendously expensive.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

plant protein is quite a bit cheaper

As I said, that’s not the case for me. Here, I can get a liter of milk for roughly a dollar (in local currency), while a liter of soy milk doesn’t go for less than 1,50 USD. A packet with 500g of soy protein costs about the same as 1kg of chicken breast, roughly 2,80 USD. A pack of 30 eggs for about 3,60

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