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teichflamme ,

Pretty stupid, but okay

Strawberry ,

completely predictable and understandable to support the rebel group fighting the regime brutally occupying your country. People generally aren’t on board with just laying down and being genocided

teichflamme ,

Supporting the terrorist group that brought this over them is pretty stupid.

And let’s be clear here. They are terrorists, not rebels.

Strawberry ,

Supporting the terrorist group that brought this over them is pretty stupid

yeah humans aren’t rational actors, but they are predictable. The support of hamas is predictable due to the brutal apartheid

And let’s be clear here. They are terrorists, not rebels.

Terrorism is a tactic. Rebels are defined by who is fighting who. Hamas is a terrorist rebel group

teichflamme ,

You conveniently left the part out where they are also terrorists.

Also I wouldn’t call them rebels as they aren’t rebelling again their government, which would be Hamas, but against a foreign power.

Strawberry ,

You conveniently left the part out where they are also terrorists.

No?

against a foreign power.

The power that is an occupying force with ultimate control over Palestine—in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza strip

teichflamme ,

You clearly did in for your first response

The power that is an occupying force with ultimate control over Palestine—in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza strip

I mean above all Hamas is an occupying force as they stopped elections and such lol

Way more than Israel was in the past decades. And in contrary to Hamas, Israel wasn’t opposed to elections in Palestine and offered land.

Btw: your argument that “people aren’t on board with lying down and being genocided” fits perfectly for the Israeli people after the continuous Hamas terrorist attacks

machinin ,

IDF are also terrorists, so it seems like terrorists fighting each other?

GenEcon ,

I guess its time to stop differentiating between Hamas and Palestinians.

Mrkawfee ,

Funny you think they ever differentiated. Issac Herzog, the President of Israel explicitly said “there are no civilians” in Gaza. There have been plenty of called to “erase” Gaza and other genocidal rhetoric much of which has been implemented.

twitter.com/…/1735246580276506970

nicholasio ,

Bomb a disproportionately large amount of civilians and children and Hamas support rises…shocking

deafboy ,
@deafboy@lemmy.world avatar

It kinda is. I can’t imagine cheering for the guys who attracts the bombs my way.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

It's easy to cheer for the guys who are fighting the guy bombing you. And keeping you in inhumane conditions where, well.., I hope I don't need to explain how life in Gaza is even in the best of days, but anyway the Israel disengagement came with the unsaid stipulation that Gaza would never be allowed to have a future. It's natural to cheer for the people who are trying to change that.

Jimmyeatsausage ,

Not sure how old you are, but I remember after 9/11 everyone being super mad about our foreign policy decisions since the 1940s and not happily giving up a massive amount of freedom and privacy to feel safer.

Actually, we forgot all our internal divisions, voted almost unanimously to give up those freedoms and and happily marched to 20 years of war.

The Palestinians are doing the same. They’re scared, so their turning to those in authority to protect them. Just like we did in America when we got scared.

rbesfe ,

Idk if the we is meant to include yourself, but anyone who happily supported the invasions after 2001 was an idiot. I was pretty young when 9/11 happened but even through the fear my family was smart enough to not blindly follow their emotions and the incessant “support the troops or else” narrative at the time.

Keeponstalin ,

It’s almost like living in a world where food, water, electricity, and aid are extremely scarce because your occupier wants them to be, while being in a constant state of displacement and fear from unending indiscriminate bombing campaigns that target schools, hospitals, refugee camps, and more can make some people act irrationally

100_percent_a_bot ,

Mamma Mia!

raspberriesareyummy ,

It’s almost like blood feuds don’t work as a means to de-escalate a conflict. shockedpikachufaceAn eye for an eye leaves everyone blind…

chitak166 ,

All the money Israel spends fighting Palestine could instead be spent making it a nice place to live.

'Course, the MIC wouldn’t like that.

raspberriesareyummy ,

'Course, the MIC wouldn’t like that.

they wouldn’t, would they?

gravitas_deficiency ,

it’s unbelievably frustrating because Israel and the IDF could have tried being a hell of a lot more surgical about the whole thing, and at least tried to avoid becoming irreversibly hated by all Palestinians as well as saving more lives… but it’s becoming apparent that saving lives (hostages or civilians) was never really part of the plan.

The plan was lebensraum.

Smk ,

We can say that both side don’t care about each other. It’s just that one side has all the weapon.

Oderus ,

News just came out that the IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages. They killed 3 unarmed hostages that were Jewish… how can we expect them to care about anyone else?

Hint: they don’t

rosymind ,

I’m certain that they didn’t mean to kill the three Jewish hostages. However, the fact that they went in guns blazing without a care to whether or not the people they were shooting were innocent or not… well, that’s sadly very telling

Oderus ,

Exactly. I wouldn’t feel safe around the IDF regardless of what my status would be.

Strawberry ,

Unfortunately the plan of the Israeli regime has always been Lebensraum since 1948

SCB ,

Pretty sure Hamas, as a political entity, isn’t going to exist to reap the benefits of this newfound popularity

Hamas, any infrastructure supporting their terrorism, and any funding they move through partner nations all will cease to be within the next few months.

Gazans should focus on a party that actually gives a shit about them, going forward. Abbas is incompetent and corrupt, so perhaps they can get some new voices in politics.

AdamEatsAss ,

I would agree. People pick the rulers that benefit them most. Hamas/other terror groups may not be the best for human rights but they haven’t been bombing everything in Palestine for the last month. I think about the USA war on terror, they “defeated” Al Queda and simultaneously caused the rise of ISIS.

Aceticon ,

It’s even more interesting: the rise of ISIS was to a large extent propelled by Al-Qaeda and ex-Iraqi military being emprisioned together in Iraq by the US when it occupied it.

Through their own use of force against Iraqis simply for doing their job in the Iraqi State, the US as an occupying power created an even worse beast than the one they put down, because doing it led them to cooperate with Al-Qaeda.

It has huge parallels with Israel as an occupying power in Palestine using unrestrained violence against people for simply being Palestinians and should inform us of just how unlikely this is to lead to the end of Hamas-like groups there.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

Gazans should focus on a party that actually gives a shit about them

Let's assume such a party exists. What do you think they can do?

SCB ,

Not steal aid from Gazans and use it to fund their jihad.

Not corrupt Gazan schools.

Not run a theocratic state.

Not have the destruction of Israel as their sole goal

Normalize relations with Israel, Egypt, and Jordan

Not kidnap, torture, and kill dissidents

Build any sort of infrastructure with the money they’re given

Things like that

ShroOmeric ,

Half of these are valid for Israel - funny isn’t it?

SCB ,

Which ones? Israel isn’t a theocracy. Israel has secular and private schools just like all free countries. Israel doesn’t steal from their people. 10/7 happened because Israel is normalizing relations, and did not succeed in ending that process, etc.

dwalin ,

Sorry, but israel is a theocracy.

…wikipedia.org/…/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-…

You either see jewish people as a religion or a race. Therefore the state is either theocratic or, well, racist.

SCB ,

It’s literally a secular state lol.

Islam is the second-largest religion in Israeli and Israeli Muslims have full rights and representation in government.

Israel is the “official state of the Jewish people” but not only a state for the Jewish people. It’s just the one that reliably won’t exterminate them.

dwalin ,

If i said: South Africa is the official state of the white people. How would you feel about it?

SCB ,

White people is a race, so it’s a little different. Also S.A. has a history of apartheid, so that would be worrying for them specifically.

dwalin ,

Ok, so you agree that israel differenciates between religions.

Positive descrimination is still discrimination, especially then you discriminate in favor of the majority.

Example: USA is the state of the cristian people. Is this good? Is this secular?

SCB ,

I don’t believe an argument can realistically be made that the US is particularly Christian at all, as a government.

Some conservatives use Christianity as a tool to get elected though.

A Christian nation, for instance, would take care of their poor and welcome immigrants.

dwalin ,

It was an example. You are missing the point.

The point is: if a state has in its base law a preference for one religion over another, it can never call itself secular. Even if they teach evolution in schools.

SCB ,

It doesn’t, though. None of its laws are preferential or exclusive. What you linked above isn’t a law that restricts anyone.

And if you’re curious, should a right-wing government there impose those laws, id wholeheartedly support reforms.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

And how productive do you think this will be Israel intentionally keeps Gaza's economy on the brink of collapse (by their own words).

SCB ,

The blockade only existed due to Hamas seizing power.

Limitless_screaming ,
@Limitless_screaming@kbin.social avatar

Hamas seized power because Palestinians know what "Israel" would do if they elected a peaceful government.

SCB ,

Yes - give them their own country for the first time in human history.

Limitless_screaming ,
@Limitless_screaming@kbin.social avatar

No, it won't give them back some of their stolen land, but settlements will start probing up, and armed raids followed by murders and mass arrests will become commonplace.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

No, it started 3 months before the elections. It was tightened after the Battle of Gaza.

ShroOmeric ,

Yeah, and Hamas wasn’t supposed to be able to attack Israel the way it did… and yet…

SCB ,

Yep sometimes terrorists succeed. See also, 9/11.

ShroOmeric ,

So you’re talking nonsense.

SCB ,

I’m sorry do you think the terrorists did not succeed on 9/11?

Or do you perhaps think Hamas is going to exist, as a political entity, after this war? Because I assure you that Israel is quite committed to making sure that doesn’t happen.

ShroOmeric ,

Israel is only committed to genocide, they are the ones that made Hamas what is today.

SCB ,

Strong disagree.

ShroOmeric ,

Oh no!

dwalin ,

If hamas stops existing another will take its place.

Terrorism does not work the same way as states do. Its a hydra.

The only way to solve this is to end the reason why it exists in the first place. Give palestinians a viable state, stop with the settlements, allow international supervision.

If people have a job, safety, food on their plate, they tend to not be terrorists.

SCB ,

If hamas stops existing another will take its place.

That’s one possibility,. not a guarantee

If people have a job, safety, food on their plate, they tend to not be terrorists.

Glad you agree with me about Gazan’s future tho

Limitless_screaming ,
@Limitless_screaming@kbin.social avatar

Glad you agree with me about Gazan’s future tho

If Hamas loses, then we are looking at a second West bank.

SCB ,

Inshallah.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not a guarantee that a power vacuum in an unstable state will result in another dictatorial religious-authoritarian terrorist group inserting itself into said power vacuum in a middle eastern undeveloped area?

As long as you don’t count an occurrence rate of 100% to be a guarantee, then sure.

SCB ,

This is why I think that Israel shouldn’t allow a power vacuum. “You break it, you fix it,” and this war has broken quite a lot.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Israel shouldn’t do a lot of things, it’s doubtful they’ll attempt to fix that. They’d rather the terrorists keep coming back, they love to kill Muslims just as much as Muslims love killing them. The two groups are both children that are constantly trying to get their big brothers into a global war over their ancient goat herder god beliefs.

Altofaltception ,

You mean genocide pushes people to the brink?

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — A wartime opinion poll among Palestinians published Wednesday shows a rise in support for Hamas, which appears to have ticked up even in the devastated Gaza Strip, and an overwhelming rejection of Western-backed President Mahmoud Abbas, with nearly 90% saying he must resign.

The findings by a Palestinian pollster signal more difficulties ahead for the Biden administration’s postwar vision for Gaza and raise questions about Israel’s stated goal of ending Hamas’ military and governing capabilities.

With survey results indicating a further erosion of the PA’s legitimacy, at a time when there’s no apparent path toward restarting credible negotiations on Palestinian statehood, the default for postwar Gaza is an open-ended Israeli occupation, pollster Khalil Shikaki said.

The videos, along with extensive eyewitness testimony and reporting by The Associated Press and others, show that hundreds of civilians in southern Israel, including women and children, were abducted or gunned down inside their own homes.

Shikaki said the most popular politician remains Marwan Barghouti, a prominent figure in Abbas’ Fatah movement who is serving multiple life terms in an Israeli prison for his alleged role in several deadly attacks during the second Palestinian uprising two decades ago.

Netanyahu has attacked Abbas for years, alleging he was enabling anti-Israeli incitement in the West Bank, while at the same time permitting regular Qatari support payments to Gaza that strengthened Hamas.

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