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hiddengoat ,

At what point are the dinks that run .world going to just completely split off from federation? It really seems like they're not actually interested in the concept of federation as a whole.

acceptable_pumpkin ,

10h old account… hmm. Did you get mad that you can’t troll from your lemmygrad account anymore?

hiddengoat ,

Never fucking been there, but go on with your persecution complex.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Lol who hurt you?

hiddengoat ,

Five and a half hours to come up with a bog-standard Reddit-class response?

Laggy-ass bot-ass.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Yea, people that have responsibilities prioritize differently. Weird, huh?

hiddengoat ,

Ah, so you put literally no effort into a response.

So why even try other than to hear yourself type?

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Wow dude 24 hours to come up with a response? Someone is slipping 😔

hiddengoat ,

Yeah, you have nothing of note. Bye.

18+ goat ,

Hey, be nice

goat ,

hey be nice

affiliate ,

i think this shows how they are interested in federation. a nice strength of federation is that if there are a bunch of crazy people on one instance, you can click a button to block them from your instance.

dangblingus ,

Federation doesnt mean obligatorily sharing digital space with idiots with repugnant views.

Silverseren ,

So wait, are they saying they do consider the USSR communist and that being a positive representation of communism?

Oh wait, I forgot, they deny the Holodomor happened, since it happened to the common worker and tankies don't care about them.

SkyezOpen ,

Had a tankie claim the gulag were actually not that bad and “most prisoners survived.” Oh neat, I guess we’ll ignore the 1.6 MILLION that didn’t.

goat ,

oh nah it’s really simple, you just pretend that 1.6 million don’t exist and is cia propaganda

affiliate ,

even if that were true, surviving is a pretty low bar. you could get tortured every day for 10 years and still survive. what makes things even more absurd is that (like you said) tons of people didn’t even survive.

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

"Most survived" is such a ringing endorsement.

Muetzenman ,
@Muetzenman@feddit.de avatar

Most ist more than a half. You to take what you get i guess.

nonailsleft ,

That’s the beauty of the Gulag, comrade. The more you send there, the more survive!

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

Average person: The USSR was Communist.

Communist: The USSR wasn’t really Communist.

Lemmygrad: The USSR was Communism at it’s finest.

Jaysyn ,
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

Pathetic.

Cylusthevirus ,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

Palestine will be free a month from now

Really?

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Deluded

FoundTheVegan ,
@FoundTheVegan@kbin.social avatar

Mark those words!!!

🙄🙄🙄🙄

I stopped reading at that point. While I would love for that to be true, it's absolutely batshit to think it will happen.

SkyezOpen ,

I’ve marked them. In my calendar. I’ll be paying the grad a visit in a month to see how things are going.

Epicurus0319 , (edited )

Now that the largest lemmy instance has finally severed ties with them for fapping to Hamas slaughtering Israeli children, they shall be a mere shell of their former self and this will undoubtedly cripple their ability to brigade and caps-lock their way into retaking Lemmy and turning it back into the Far-Left Truth Social it originally was before its colonization by the normal, non-tankie redditors who founded .world to post about normal redditish things

SkyezOpen ,

Hopefully, but those weaselly fucks have infiltrated and taken over leftist subreddit before. I wouldn’t put it past them to try it on lemmy.

PugJesus , (edited )
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

Yeah, in a month I'm going to be staring absently at indescribable numbers of Palestinian casualties, feeling blessed to lie a country so far from such a situation, and feeling cursed for living in a world that allows it.

mindbleach ,

Yeah, like that Family Guy bit. Bibi saw signs reading “Free Palestine” and said, “Sold.”

kromem ,

Of course. As soon as Putin finally gets the position as Speaker of the House he’ll advance a bill that switches the US from capitalism to communism, which will go so well that the EU follows suit within days. This is about one week from now.

Then the unprecedented collaboration of the world having shrugged off the yoke of capitalism will solve nuclear fusion gaining total energy independence. That’s going to be about two more weeks give or take a few days.

Oh, and all Christians will have given up their religion for atheism of course in the interim, so middle east policy based on Revelations goes out the window.

At that point the US and EU will withdraw their support for Israel and instead give their support to Palestine, no longer having any reasons to need a strategic ally in the region.

The paperwork and inevitable killing of Israelis may take about another week after that, but with a bit of luck in the scheduling, it will be wrapped up a month from now.

Mark his words.

gravitas_deficiency ,

Who’s Mark? And why does he have words?

mindbleach ,

… there’s some rapture movies that sound a lot like that.

Epicurus0319 , (edited )

Yes comrade, and the month after that Putin, having completely taken over Ukraine somehow and then inevitably sent its whole population on a one-way trip to Siberia, will use his icebreaker fleet and what’s left of his navy to liberate Alaska’s 5 ethnic Russians, immediately decimating our they/them army before they even get there by simply being straight so that within mere hours they secure the entire state and, after inevitably wiping out the native Alaskans and all of Anchorage’s gays, hold a free and fair referendum where 109% of the remaining population votes to form the Alyeska People’s Republic. Then they’ll somehow sneak past the narrow and well-guarded Puget Sound without getting hit by missiles from a mountain or running aground in the fog and then create the Sietl People’s Republic (all without having their cheap uniforms soaked in the rain and dying of pneumonia), gobbling up all those tech and airplane manufacturing secrets (so we can finally see actual innovation without capitalistic monopolies yay!) and going on yet another homophobic killing spree, this time spanning several cities. The PNW shall be free from capitalistic US tyranny!!!1

Meanwhile, China will claim that since Hawaiians are descended from Taiwanese aborigines, it historically owns Hawaii; the american-mainland-hating locals will defs be on board with another continental imperialist stealing their land and turning it into a state-sized tourist resort again- this time peppered with a few boarding schools and sterilizations. It will be the beginning of the end for the American Empire™, I can’t wait!

/s

yuri ,

This is great, thank you

nonailsleft ,

Downvoted for the /s

18+ Cornpop ,

How’s that going huh lol

antonim ,

I recommend you make an account on a third-party instance that federates with us, like ml or ee until they also defederate from us because we have principles

But .ml is literally the “Marxist-Lenininst” instance, why do they automatically expect conflicts with them as well? Some of these people have a persecution complex.

Cylusthevirus ,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

How about because they're not actually particularly Marxist-Leninist, but simply red flavored fascists and everyone with two neurons to rub together can see that?

admiralteal ,

Not to no true scotsman this shit, but does anyone self-identify as "Leninist" who isn't a Stalinist?

Marxist is a pretty tame word, all things considered. Marxism is a pretty broad tent that fits a lot of people. But I don't think I have ever interacted with a self-described "Leninist" that wasn't authoritarian and against civil rights. This coming from a guy who regularly quotes Lenin.

vih ,

Indeed. Leninism as something separate to Marxism comes from Stalin’s “The Foundations of Leninism” in 1924. He wasted no time after Lenin died to coopt Lenins already flawed adaptations for his own needs. There is no “Leninism” separate from Stalin.

As a Marxist, and someone who have considered myself a communist (though I rarely use the term now mostly because it results in tedious discussions about exactly by what definition; a more precise term would be libertarian Marxist), I’ve stood face to face with “Marxist-Leninists” who told me that if they were in charge I’d be sent to a labor camp because I supported democracy.

To me they’re as much of a threat and as much of an enemy to me as any fascist.

“Democratic” centralism was a very dangerous mistake, and the notion of a vanguard party likewise, because they combine to make a party far too easy to capture by people who think they know best, and so can do away with the corrective input of other people, and that attracts exactly the same type of people who are attracted to fascism. There may be distinctions in who exactly they want to lock up and what they want to outlaw, but there are significant overlaps there too.

Eldritch ,

100% It’s such a tragic and fucked up thing that the words have been so corrupted and co-opted. Can’t identify as communist due to McCarthy-ist propaganda in the West and the corruption of Lenin and Stalin still clinging heavily to the term to this day. And for many the same reasons can’t even claim to be libertarian without having to explain topeople that you aren’t just selfish capitalists. Due to all the Twisted Rothbard propaganda. And Marx / Marxism which hasn’t done anything wrong has just been beaten into the ground with misinformation.

It’s so tedious to have to try to educate every single person you talk to. So much easier unfortunately to just use more vague or abstract terms. Though honestly I think there is a lot of value in identifying with and differentiating the terms. And trying to take them back. I for one don’t think I would have come to the realization I have today had people not done it to me.

You are spot on that leninists/stalinists are nobody’s friend though. Just like all authoritarians they’ll turn on themselves even eventually. And Leninism is one term there is no rehabilitation for.

vih ,

I kinda like reclaiming the term libertarian, though, because it really fucks with the heads of US right-wing libertarians to quote Joseph Dejacque to them with his agreement with Proudhon’s “property is theft”.

I’ve taken to seeing my goals as not to convince the people I talk to, but to convince “passers-by”. That is far more satisfying because it takes far less effort. You get far just by showing patience and letting the other person stumble in their own words and reach for the insults. Just earlier today someone got a ban for going off the rails and supporting Pinochet in that thread about CIA admitting their mistakes in Iran - he convinced nobody, and ended up contributing to making himself look like a crazed bloodthirsty psychopath. If I’d hoped to “win” that argument, I’d have despaired, but as a beacon illustrating the immorality of coopting democracy “preventatively” out of unsupported fears it was glorious.

With respect to the tankies, my biggest concern is the number of people who just aren’t paying that close attention. There are lots of nice quotes even from Stalin in isolation. When people treat tankies as if they’re just a bit misguided but still part of the same broad movement, they provide fertile ground for these people to peddle their shit that way, and get legitimised by proximity. To me that is the biggest risk the pose - their access to left-wing spaces must be fought, because the moment they’re on the outside their recruitment is far harder.

Eldritch ,

That would definitely be a good way to make the heads of those who unironically claim that taxation is theft explode. Though I’m much more a fan of phrasing it as private property. It’s a little more constructive and concise. Even those that are being disingenuous would generally reflexively ask what other kind there is. Besides public property of course. Which is an excellent opportunity to explain concepts like personal property. Whether or not they’ll be listening. Because others might.

I think it’s dangerous to assume/conflate passion with childishness/name calling. For instance the word tankie. Yes some of them have unironically embraced it. But generally it is just name calling as well. Granted many will whine that you’re calling them names. Even when you’re just labeling then as what their words and actions show then to be. Not all names are created equal. Which is why I stick mostly to calling them Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist etc. Which ever is more applicable. Because it’s what they clearly are and espouse. Most of them don’t own a tank however. And the average person wouldn’t understand the reference.🤷 That said, if name calling is the only thing someone had to offer. Yeah fuck that.

vih ,

I tend to stick to what people call themselves when talking to them, but the term “tankie” is broad, and sometimes I don’t feel like listing every variation. I don’t think it’s connotations are much worse than those of the names of their various ideologies.

18+ Eldritch ,

Yeah, if they choose to use it themselves that’s fair. Typically that isn’t my experience. But it is just that, my experience only. Though honestly if I were to find ones that did do that. Lemmygrad definitely would be a prime location lol. But I never really saw anything there worth engaging.

ViciousTangerine ,

Well, tankies are pretty good at eating their own, even when they agree on 99% of stuff.

cmbabul ,

Also, tankies don’t know Marx from their own asshole, if they had any damn sense they’d be able to tell that the USSR wasn’t communist because it never moved past the ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ phase if it can be said to have even started in the first place. Stalin took over and never had any intention of letting that happen, Khrushchev did in fairness try to fix some of the damage done which makes some sense because he actually fought in the Russian Civil War as a Bolshevik, but Brezhnev killed all that

Slotos ,

Communists historically are the primary cause of death of communists.

Cockmaster6000 ,

“Parties are dumb anyway” says loser, after being booted from a party for being an insufferable twat.

goat ,

lmao their tantrum

r3df0x ,

They’re a bunch of childish larpers who think Lenin was cool so they redgelord themselves into fully taking the ideology without the slightest hint of irony, and then melt down if it gets questioned.

dangblingus ,

To be fair, Lenin was a lot cooler than Stalin and nowhere near as ruthless or bent on authoritarianism.

Rampsquatch ,

Getting shot in the arm isn’t as bad as getting shot in the balls, but that doesn’t mean I want to get shot in the arm.

NewPerspective ,

Why do all the crazy people think debates fix things?

admiralteal ,

When your entire strategy in an argument is to be disingenuous and dishonest as all hell, you ALWAYS feel like you win the arguments.

It can trick a person into thinking they are a good debater.

donuts ,
@donuts@kbin.social avatar

In other words, it's easy to win a debate when you were only aiming to convince yourself.

mindbleach ,

The nature of bad faith is that there is no right answer.

FireTower , (edited )
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

Because eventually the sane people stop talking to them. And that means they forfeit the debate and the crazy person wins it be default.

SchizoDenji ,

Ahh yes, the Eric Cartman strategy.

dangblingus ,

Theyre insecure about their intelligence and theyre posturing.

dustyData ,

Watch out guys, he’s read things.

slowd0wn ,

He knows the origin of the word “totalitarian” without looking it up. Because memorization is obviously the cornerstone of critical thinking

RedditWanderer ,

I learned where it came from in high school. Is that checkmate?

affiliate ,

unfortunately not since everything taught in high school is a lie. the only way to learn things is to read things after graduating (as long as they aren’t written by high school teachers or any other educated person)

echodot ,

So you looked it up - got you now evil imperialist

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

I love that pointing out that a fascist invented it is somehow a gotcha

MolochAlter ,

Tbh that’s one of the few good things Mussolini actually can take credit for. That and converting a bunch of swamps into arable land.

Can’t easily hate something without a proper name for it afterall.

Eldritch ,

They love that tactic and treating it like it means something. Like a libertarian claiming to be experts in capitalism because they’ve read every work of fiction Ayn Rand ever published. And I’m like, it’s great you read and all bro. But do you understand. And inevitability they don’t.

Peaty ,

Or they have read things but cannot place it in context eg The Communist Manifesto was a response to problems Marx and Engles saw in capitalism whereas Smith was responding to issues with mercantilism.

Eldritch ,

Well that and of the ultimate problem when it comes to things of sociology and economics. No matter how many books you’ve read or by who. Having read and commit those books to heart. Means you know nothing more than what the people in those books say. Whether or not we agree with what they say or hold it true. It doesn’t make it true or valuable in itself.

That most ideologies no matter how rational or logical they seem. Are often impractical due to the assumption of rationality and logical thinking.

Peaty ,

Your post makes it seem like you think sociology and economics aren’t sciences. Economics in Marx’s time was certainly closer to philosophy but that hasn’t been the case since the 1960s.

The problem the Marxists who are not formally educated in philosophy or science face is that they don’t realize economics in the modern age isn’t concerned with the kinds of thinking Marx engaged in because it isn’t based on empiricism.

Eldritch ,

They aren’t. Not in the same sense of physics and chemistry for sure. That doesn’t mean that they are without value. It just means that they have no authority to predict anything. Empiricism and determinism are sort of the core of science. If you mix a set proportion of materials at a specific temperature you will always get the same products. An authoritarian a leninist and a Communist walk into a bar. And you’ll get as many different punchlines as there are people who attempt to answer it.

Nothing changed in 1960. Economics is still largely philosophy. With the hindsight those sort of things give we can often try to understand why things might have happened. Maybe even offer insight into something like it perhaps happening again. But certainly not predict it happening. One of the best indicators that economics is largely philosophy. Is the fact that for these last 50 years conservative in the United States to have babbled on incoherently about bullshit supply side economics.

Peaty ,

Oh, so you’re one of those. You don’t know anything about modern economics or philosophy if you think the two are even remotely similar.

Seriously a question in modern economics would be “did the tax policy instituted by placeistan in 2008 positively or negatively impact school enrollment?” While a question in philosophy would be “is the tax policy instituted by Placeistan an ethical or nonethical policy?” Those aren’t the same and the only reason why you would think the subjects are similar is if you know nothing about either one.

Im willing to be you know little about what constitutes a science based on the ignorance you have displayed so far.

Prestidigitation is not part of science and it is weird that you think the inability to predict everything is somehow unique to social sciences.

18+ Eldritch ,

Oh, so you’re one of those. Getting all pissy, unable to address what was said. Instead making accusations and strawmen.

Your example is just silly. That’s just asking someone to make an observation and personal interpretation. How would you justify that interpretation. How would you test that hypothesis? Is it repeatable? Wheres your control group. Economics fails/doesn’t adhere to basic scientific method. And isn’t SCIENCE. No disrespect econ major. It isn’t. It’s a social science. That’s a significant difference. Saying economics is a Science. Full stop. Is like saying your hatchback is a formula 1. Though if you can prove otherwise I’m willing to listen despite your rudeness

18+ goat ,

take it easy gamers

Kerfuffle ,

You can read as much Ayn Rand as you want with perfect understanding and you’re not really going to learn anything.

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