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Karyoplasma , to worldnews in BBC reports - Sweden is in!

I’m surprised. Erdogan is not known for non-confronational decisions, especially if they benefit others. Did he suffer a sudden bout of dementia?

variaatio ,

Nah. He is also known for instant turns, when he thinks he has bargained enough or when it happens to suit the image he wants to present.

For example say he decided “Vilnius is the moment I stop bargaining, but only at last minute. Lets see what concessions I can get out of them until then” or so on.

It is exactly on brand for Erdogan to suddenly turn his position and go “what problem, there is no problem. What I said last week there was a problem… no no no, I Erdogan The First have solved problem quickly in only few days. Yes we made a deal, I negotiated amazing deal, deal solves the problem. There is No problem anumore. It’s solved.”

What happened to solve the problem? Nothing, Erdogan just stopped insisting there was a problem in first place and well some flowery language on top to make it look like it was deal to end the problem and not a climb down to end the problem.

derin ,
@derin@lemmy.beru.co avatar

Yeah, this sums it up pretty nicely.

You do also have to remember that a lot of this was around the elections and stoking the flames of a boogeyman (the PKK), so now that they’re done and over with it was just a matter of time.

Madbrad200 , to world in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg
@Madbrad200@lemmy.world avatar

Hopefully Hungary follows suit quickly

Algaroth ,

They have said they won’t block it if Turkey agrees to allow Sweden to join. But it remains to be seen now.

MaxPower , to worldnews in BBC reports - Sweden is in!
@MaxPower@feddit.de avatar

Fucking finally

I want to see Putins stupid face now, it must be glorious to watch

Rengoku ,

“sweden joining NATO does not concern us.” - putin replies

RGB3x3 ,

Translation: “Sweden joining NATO greatly concerns us.”

1bluepixel , to worldnews in BBC reports - Sweden is in!
@1bluepixel@lemmy.ml avatar

It sounds like Erdogan is saying this is conditional on the EU reopening talks about Turkiye joining. Is that even happening?

photonic_sorcerer ,
@photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No, that’s what he said earlier today. Seems like he was just posturing and seeking attention.

1bluepixel ,
@1bluepixel@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh, I see! I misread the article. Good news!

MrShankles ,

It sounds like it’s going through because Sweden and Turkey have worked together to address legitimate concerns about Turkish national security? But I don’t see any mention of the EU talks; the article neither dismissing them or addressing them at all (unless I’m just dumb right now and am mis-read something. So I’m still wondering if those talks are “off the table”, or if someone could please correct me about my misunderstandings

variaatio ,

Nah. Sweden doesn’t seem to have given any firm commitments about security beyond “We work on it together”, which can mean exactly as little or as much it fancies Sweden after they are in NATO.

To me this is simply “Erdogan has decided he has seen this bargaining to completion and it would look really bad, if this thing wasn’t resolved by Vilnius. Pressure started to mount with This is starting to be embarrassing Recep from rest of NATO” and he simply called it good.

Nothing needs to have been changed on this exact moment, He just decided he has tried long enough and has exhausted the concessions and no point dragging it on. Instead of benefit, it started to be more hindrance in his calculation to keep this going.

He can now tan in the limelight in Vilnius as the leader who saved the situation at last minute. Mind you the problem was of his own creation, but hey those are the best kind of problems. You have exact control and can “solve the problem” at exactly the most suitable last minute moment. Actual problems are harder for “last minute saviour” credibility collection. You might actually fail to solve the problem and thats not good.

MrShankles ,

I saw this from today, mentioning paving the way for Turkey to join the EU, as well as the US selling their F-16’s to Turkey.

theguardian.com/…/nato-sweden-pm-to-meet-with-tur…

I think the US congress would veto Biden’s approval (or already has), if I’m reading correctly? But I can’t find any follow-up as to what actually made the deal go through.

I also wonder if the EU is going to reopen talks about Turkey joining. But seems like Sweden has also done a lot of legwork already to jibe with Turkish security concerns, so maybe that was enough? I’m curious too

TheGod ,

EU will never seriously want turkey to be member. They will only pretend if necessary.

EU doesnt want another Orban and Polish right wing governments blocking every single decision

barsoap ,

Talks weren’t suspended because the EU hates Turkey (national politics and sentiment nonwithstanding Berlaymont just doesn’t care about those things) but because the accession procedure went nowhere, and in some areas backslided.

As such reopening is contingent on nothing but Turkey actually taking its prospect of joining seriously. I wonder if Erdogan understands that “Sweden reinvigorating Turkey’s application” pretty much means Sweden giving Turkey private lessons in how to be less of a shithole… in any case it doesn’t surprise me that Sweden agreed to such language.

Cynicivity , to worldnews in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg

Didn’t he just say either yesterday or today that he wouldn’t back Sweden joining NATO until Turkey was allowed into the EU? I hope his neck wasn’t broken from that whiplash.

e033x ,

Luckily, being dictator in a post truth environment apparently voids the need for consistancy. Something something always at war with oceania something insert comment about the prescience of some old/dead person.

gravitas_deficiency , to world in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg

Lol wow. Erdogan was singing a very different tune less than 8 hours ago. I’d guess that some very pointed threats around security guarantees and future arms sales were made by the rest of the alliance for him to do an about-face that quickly.

Hairypooper ,

I can’t imagine he’s someone to strongarm. Nor would it be good for the alliance if members are forced into accepting things they don’t want.

I’d imagine he got his desired concessions, or it was mostly just bluster for internal politics.

gravitas_deficiency ,

I think the US delegation took him aside and said something along the lines of “alright chucklefuck, going forward, if you want parts and technical support for any of the massive amounts of extremely advanced military shit we’ve sold you for decades, you’re going to stop fucking around on the Sweden accession”.

Hairypooper ,

Yeahhh that’s not how diplomacy works. That’s how edgy high school kids would imagine running NATO.

sunbeam60 , to world in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg

As a Dane, I’d like to welcome our old brothers in arms! Scandinavia is whole!!

theacharnian OP , to worldnews in Migrant boat from Senegal carrying 200 people missing off Canary Islands
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

Update: Spain coast guard rescues 86 people during search for missing migrant boat www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66150788

vlad76 , to world in Twitter Blue accounts fuel Ukraine War misinformation
@vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

At some point we have to start blaming the people reading this stuff. I’m not saying that social media platforms shouldn’t try to address this problem, but clearly they don’t know how to, and don’t care. That’s why we’re here, after all.

TwoGems , (edited )
@TwoGems@lemmy.world avatar

Ribbit

vlad76 ,
@vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Also true.

photonic_sorcerer ,
@photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It’s misinformation directed at a certain target group. I bet you that there’s misinformation out there directed at people like you and me that we’ve fallen for.

vlad76 ,
@vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Oh surely. But I personally I would consider that a failure on my part. I’m not saying it’s all on users, but I do wish people thought more about what they read.

bedrooms ,

I agree, but governments are poor at educating adults. (Well, they're poor at educating children, too.) There's no way the situation will improve by blaming the problem on the users.

Gray ,
@Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

In the past I would have agreed with you, but in the age of increasingly sophisticated AI being able to nearly perfectly imitate people’s voices or images, I think we need to start asking more of social media companies. When truth starts looking indistinguishable from fiction we’re going to need to find new ways of parsing which is which. Fact checking will be extremely important.

vlad76 ,
@vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yeah, that’s true.

InfiniteFlow , to world in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg
@InfiniteFlow@lemmy.world avatar

Apparently his price is for the EU to allow Turkey to join…

ribboo ,

The price is for Sweden to push for talks to be brought up again. That is not the same thing as letting Turkey join the EU. Though it should also be said the Swedish prime minister said no new terms have been agreed since November.

Snickers ,

Won’t happen, not with the whole Hungary mess and the rise of the political far-right going on. No government would risk political suicide and the end of the Union for Sweden’s NATO membership.

ilickfrogs , to world in Twitter Blue accounts fuel Ukraine War misinformation
@ilickfrogs@lemmy.world avatar
332 , (edited ) to world in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg
@332@lemmy.world avatar

You can’t fool us Erdogan, we’ve seen this move before.

By tomorrow he’ll have new demands. He’ll demand Sweden form a space agency and plant the Turkish flag on the moon or something like that, mark my words.

Deestan ,

Yes yes I signed it just need to find my stamps to put it in the mail. Just one more thing it is very important please can you arrange to hold the Eurovision in Ankara next year instead?

xc2215x , to world in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg

Good for Erdogan. I don’t say that often.

Ryan213 , to world in Twitter Blue accounts fuel Ukraine War misinformation
@Ryan213@lemmy.world avatar

No way!

crowsby , to world in Turkey leader Erdogan will back Sweden joining Nato - Stoltenberg
@crowsby@kbin.social avatar

If the goal was to extract concessions, then any actual opposition to it was nothing more than pantomime and theatre. Presumably he finagled a deal he's happy with.

Now Hungary is a different beast, since Orban has recently been much more warm and cuddly with Putin than Turkey has, but perhaps with Turkey acceding to the arrangement they'll play some follow-the-fascist-leader and fall in line.

Balssh ,

Hungary is also dependent on EU money, Turkey is not.

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