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MicroWave OP , in A feud is heating up between Arizona workers and the world's leading chipmaker after the company claimed the US doesn't have the skills to build its new factory
@MicroWave@lemmy.world avatar

To get the construction of its Arizona chip factory back on track, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) says it needs more workers with the expertise and skillsets that Americans don’t have. Since June, the company has been in discussions with the US government about receiving accelerated non-immigrant E-2 visas for as many as 500 Taiwanese workers.

The Arizona Pipe Trades 469 Union, a labor union that says it represents over 4,000 pipefitters, plumbers, welders, and HVAC technicians, has started a petition to urge US lawmakers to deny these visas. The petition claims that TSMC has deliberately misrepresented the skillset of Arizona’s workforce. By approving TSMC’s visa requests, a union website says lawmakers would be laying the groundwork for “cheap labor” to replace American workers.

esadatari ,

hmmm. while i get the point the union is trying to make, there is a staunch difference between welding and pipe fitting versus creating semi-conductors.

i think it’s silly to assume the workers wouldn’t learn the necessary skills to be able to work there, but it’s also silly to say “well we can fit pipes and weld shit so we can make semiconductors.”

MicroWave OP ,
@MicroWave@lemmy.world avatar

We’re not talking about semiconductor workers though. This is from the earlier article that this article references:

TSMC and its suppliers are in talks with the U.S. government to assist with the application process for non-immigrant visas in a bid to dispatch more than 500 experienced workers as early as July to expedite the construction of cleanroom facilities and the installation of pipelines and other equipment, three chip supply chain executives said.

asia.nikkei.com/…/TSMC-to-send-hundreds-more-work…

HuddaBudda ,
@HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

Chip making factories need water, electricity, ventilation. I don't think that surprises anyone.

And if there was one thing American's are Semi-good at, it is trade skills.

If this was a case of needing more experienced professionals for chips, I would agree with Tiawan. However, could anyone make an argument on why we need a concrete expert from Taiwan? Or an electrician from Tiawan? Or a plumber from Tiawan?

jscummy ,

Specialized electricians for some of the more sophisticated systems is the only one that makes any sense. Even then, there’s plenty of US workers available unless it’s something highly specific to chip fabs.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

That’s exactly what it is.

“We are now entering a critical phase of handling and installing the most advanced and dedicated equipment,” said TSMC chairman Mark Liu. “However, we are encountering certain challenges as there is an insufficient amount of skilled workers with those specialized expertise required for equipment installation in a semiconductor-grade facility.”

jscummy ,

I still have some suspicions on that, AMD and Intel aren’t complaining about shortages. I’d be curious to see what expertise/certifications they’re looking for because I’m sure they could find a company in Cali or Texas if they’re willing to pay up.

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@mastodon.social avatar

@jscummy @JustZ

More so these days it's all about the "money", as in wages.

Companies are too beholden to investors instead of the company. When the rich boys scream about wages sucking up too much of their profits, this is what happens.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

I bet the instruction manuals for much of the equipment is completely in Mandarin, not to mention the computer coding involved.

jscummy ,

A lot of the major equipment will come from ASML (Dutch) and a lot of the minor stuff will probably be from a major conglomerate that has no issue providing multiple language manuals.

Furthermore, for larger/built in equipment installs the company providing will send out a technician for final programming at the very least.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

“We are now entering a critical phase of handling and installing the most advanced and dedicated equipment,” said TSMC chairman Mark Liu. “However, we are encountering certain challenges as there is an insufficient amount of skilled workers with those specialized expertise required for equipment installation in a semiconductor-grade facility.”

ZapBeebz_ ,

To add on, this union represents a large number of skilled pipefitters and other tradespeople who have done the exact same work on several similar Intel facilities within Arizona. It’s pretty clear that TSMC wants to take US taxpayer funding (for a project designed to stimulate the skilled trades in AZ, as well as create jobs for Americans) and instead of paying market rates for American workers, pay a lot less to bring workers over from Taiwan.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Read article. That work is already done.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

they’re talking about building the facility. which includes a shit load of plumbing. between all the high-purity water line, the chemical line. the gas line. the everything else to feed the machines… yeah. they’re gonna need pipefitters

FuglyDuck , (edited )
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

YUP. all this, and also, probably, that the Union labor is more likely to refuse not building things to code. (edit, fixed a typo. thank you @mind)

mind ,

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  • FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    no. They would be reistant to not following code.
    the imported workers would be more likely to not build to code.

    fixed it, thank you.

    jscummy ,

    How are they justifying these visas in any way? If it’s those trades listed, claiming any kind of shortage is bullshit. They just don’t want to pay union prices.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s not those trades.

    “We are now entering a critical phase of handling and installing the most advanced and dedicated equipment,” said TSMC chairman Mark Liu. “However, we are encountering certain challenges as there is an insufficient amount of skilled workers with those specialized expertise required for equipment installation in a semiconductor-grade facility.”

    These are highly specialized engineers and scientists.

    FireTower , in Trump heading for Republican 'coronation' as 2024 rivals struggle to stop him
    @FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

    Honestly this next election is shaping up to be a shit show… again. My prediction is that the Republican party puts forth another candidate who has his potential pool cannibalized by Trump running independently and Biden campaign come under question due to his old age and low approval rating leading to a push for a different blue candidate.

    sugarfree , in 2 eject from vintage Soviet jet before crash at Michigan air show
    @sugarfree@lemmy.world avatar

    Video: streamable.com/mlk27i, can’t believe no one was injured

    wrath-sedan , in Texas Revamps Houston Schools, Closing Libraries and Angering Parents
    @wrath-sedan@kbin.social avatar
    Hwats_so_funny_meow ,

    Thank you for that.

    jerome ,
    @jerome@kbin.social avatar

    thanks

    FireTower , in Massachusetts passed a 4% millionaire's tax last year. Now every public school student is going to get free lunch
    @FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

    I was curious about the budgeting implications because enacting a increase to revenue doesn’t necessarily mean increased spending would be covered. For any one to lazy to go off site, but also interested:

    “$1 billion of the state’s record $56.2 billion fiscal budget for 2024 came from the state’s new 4% tax on millionaires.”

    “State lawmakers agreed to put $523 million of revenue from the new tax toward education and put $477 million aside for transportation.”

    Didn’t find the cost there but on one of their sources:

    “A portion of that money will go toward the $172 million needed to provide free school meals, the State House News Service reported.”

    DessertStorms ,
    @DessertStorms@kbin.social avatar

    So out of a billion extra dollars, they didn't even spend 20% on the kids (it's too early for me to do the calculation out of the total budget, but it'd be pitiful).
    Which is great, but using them as a headline all things considered seems manipulative and like they're burying the lead.

    Good for the kids, don't get me wrong, but somewhere along the way a lot more of that money has been spent on other things, and most likely is lining the pockets of the already rich and powerful.

    So yeah, it's a great example of what a tiny hike in taxing the rich can do, but it not only doesn't come close to being enough, it also feels like another scam where good publicity hides a whole manner of sins going on behind the scenes.

    wrath-sedan ,
    @wrath-sedan@kbin.social avatar

    I mean all we know so far is that half of the new tax is going to education (and 172mil of that has already gone towards an excellent cause) and half is going to transportation. Of course skimming off the top is incredibly common, but I think it’s far too early to call the amount misspent.

    zephyreks ,

    If they could line the pockets of the MBTA, that would be great thanks.

    FireTower ,
    @FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

    Sorry if my quoting gave off the wrong impression. I believe it meant that of the total 1 billion dollars 523 million will be spent on education. Of the 523 million to be spent on education 172 million will be used to pay for lunches. The remaining 351 million I would assume is being used for other educational expenses like new equipment or for salaries.

    Perhaps there is miss management of the funds but I don’t think that it fair to conclude the 351 million has been misappropriated just based on this information.

    jatone ,

    why spend more on something than you need to? plenty of others besides kids who could use the services the additional money will pay for.

    soren446 , in Hawaiian couple sues power companies over Lahaina destruction amid historic Maui wildfires
    @soren446@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • ohlaph ,

    Faux “news” is absolute trash.

    girlfreddy ,
    @girlfreddy@mastodon.social avatar
    Pratai , in Massachusetts passed a 4% millionaire's tax last year. Now every public school student is going to get free lunch

    This is fantastic news!

    ChocoboRocket , in Boy survives 100ft Grand Canyon fall after dodging tourist photo

    This article is wild. Sounds like they discharged him after a day, and the parents say they’re glad they’re taking him home in the front seat instead of in a box.

    List of injuries:

    9 broken vertebrae

    Collapsed lung

    Ruptured spleen

    Broken hand

    That kid ain’t seeing the front seat anytime soon, partially because of healing, and partially because that family won’t be affording seats of any kind in this lifetime

    deweydecibel ,

    It’s insane that kid walked away without any head injuries.

    But those don’t sound like unrecoverable injuries. It will cost a fortune, of course, but unless there’s some complications those likely won’t be lifelong issues. He’s incredibly lucky.

    Tatters ,

    Broken vertebrae? Sounds like a lifetime of back pain.

    HubertManne ,

    What! I had a spontaneous collapsed lung and was in the hospital for days

    Etterra , in Massachusetts passed a 4% millionaire's tax last year. Now every public school student is going to get free lunch

    Good. Now slap a 0 to the end of that 4, and then double it.

    AnonTwo ,

    I'm pretty sure at an 80% rate the millionaires would just spend the rate moving, out of state or out of country depending on how far reaching it was.

    don ,

    That’s exactly how that would go.

    CubbyTustard ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • yoyogamer ,

    People found all sorts of loopholes to not pay that. Nobody paid that much taxes.

    CubbyTustard ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • yoyogamer ,

    So lemmy is just as stupidly socialist communist as reddit… got it…

    prole ,

    Nobody paid that much taxes.

    Do you have any evidence for that claim, or are you just stating it with certainty because it feels right to you?

    Nobody paid 90% of their total income because that’s not how tax brackets work.

    yoyogamer ,

    So lemmy is just as stupidly socialist communist as reddit… got it…

    prole ,

    Because I know how taxes work?

    idiomaddict ,

    Then we’d be rid of them at least

    DessertStorms ,
    @DessertStorms@kbin.social avatar

    And nothing of value was lost...

    Like, oh no, what would a state do without their money hoarding exploiters that alredy contribute less than the bare minimum???
    And worse - if everyone decided to make these laws, where will the poor millionaires escape to then???

    Oh, won't someone think of the millionaires!!!11

    atzanteol ,

    And nothing of value was lost…

    Except the taxable income you wanted to tax?

    DessertStorms ,
    @DessertStorms@kbin.social avatar

    I don't want to tax, I want to eat.

    prole ,

    You mean the money that we already aren’t getting?

    prole ,

    Oh look, someone else who doesn’t understand how progressive tax brackets work. Their effective tax rate wouldn’t be 80%, only income above a certain (very high) number would be taxed at 80%.

    don ,

    In other words, “Don’t provide children with free meals.”

    wrath-sedan ,
    @wrath-sedan@kbin.social avatar

    Made me curious what the total tax rate would be in Mass. Apparently it has a flat 5% income tax, plus 4% millionaires tax, plus federal rate for income over about 578k is 37%, so altogether it’s 46% for income over a mil in Mass.

    Definitely think it should be higher for such wildly high income. Also disappointed to see for being a relatively progressive state Mass has a flat rather than progressive income tax.

    zephyreks ,

    As your income increases, your ability to reduce taxable income also increases. The goal of the state is basically to target the lazy.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Definitely think it should be higher for such wildly high income.

    Higher, nothing. There should be a rate above which it’s taxed at 100%. No one needs to be as rich as Musk or Zuckerberg or Bezos.

    BubblyMango ,

    And no millioneir will keep his money in a state where those are the tax rates. If you make it too high you literally get nothing.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Awww. Too bad for them. What will we do without millionaires hoarding their wealth?!

    uberkalden ,

    No, he’s saying they will keep it. Just in a way that mass gets literally nothing

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    So either they will get a lot of money or things won’t be any different except millionaires won’t be there hoarding wealth?

    I’m not seeing a downside yet.

    doyoulikemyparka ,

    I think they mean the millionaires will find other ways to hoard it to avoid tax levels they won’t stomach. Fair? No. Reality? Probably.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    People make the same argument about not returning to the tax rates of the 1950s. I say let’s try it and find out.

    pinkdrunkenelephants ,

    It would take massive and severe state action to deprive the rich of that wealth, and that money would still not find its way into the hands of the poor because the state, and corrupt bureaucrats within it, would take it for themselves.

    The poor themselves would have to band together, organize, steal back all the resources from the rich, and distribute it amongst themselves fairly. And that won’t work without a deeply organized plan everyone in the group already agrees to, and even then it might not because the sociopaths and evil people among the poor – which comprises of a lot of them, sorry-not-sorry but it’s true – will just hoard all of those resources, creating a new ruling class.

    Stuff like a ruling class is just the human condition because humanity is inherently evil. The non-evil humans will have to accept that reality is like this, figure out who is trustworthy and who is not, band together the like-minded, isolate themselves and pray a sociopath or evil person never infiltrates their ranks, figure out how to suss them out, and kill them.

    Until humanity itself evolves to be more docile, it’ll never change.

    doyoulikemyparka ,

    I … honestly would be up for this approach. When do you run for office, sir?

    yoyogamer ,

    And yet you guys wonder why millionaires move to Texas. You increase the taxes above a certain number and they’ll take all their wealth, consumption and their taxes to another state.

    Taxes should be sustainable. High taxes on rich people aren’t sustainable because they’ll leave taking whatever taxes they pay and whatever consumption they do which contributes to the economy.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    The wealth that they hoard? The consumption they import? Let me guess, they’re also “job creators.”

    yoyogamer ,

    Who pays your salary?

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    A corporation. Not a rich individual.

    yoyogamer ,

    Who do you think created these corporations? Rich people with aim to make more money.

    Capitalism pays your salary. Without capitalism and with theft of wealth via unfair taxation, your job won’t exist.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Rich people do not need to exist for corporations to exist. Also, you think wage theft doesn’t happen under capitalism?

    According to the Economic Policy Institute, wage theft costs U.S. workers as much as $50 billion per year — a number far higher than all robberies, burglaries and motor vehicle thefts combined.

    inthesetimes.com/…/wage-theft-union-labor-biden-i…

    All right! Go capitalism!

    fiat_lux , in ‘Everything you’ve been told is a lie!’ Inside the wellness-to-fascism pipeline

    Grifters, con-artists and fascists all use the truth to sell a lie. The truth is that we have been steadily raised on a diet of mass produced garbage, optimised purely for profit while disregarding all public and environmental welfare in its construction and delivery. The lie is that the grifters, con-artists and fascists are not just doing the exact same thing to the extreme.

    They offer what they call good, wholesome and honest solutions to contrast with the big globalist elitist fat-cats selling expensive unnatural poisons. But natural or synthetic, poisons can kill you the same type of dead.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    Donald Trump successfully sold the slogan: Drain the Swamp

    as long as the "truth" they're advertising is scary and misunderstood somehow, they can sell anything while they're pandering to the listener's ego.. this is Alex Jones' entire ethos..

    fiat_lux ,

    Pandering to egos, or what I see more frequently, predating on fears. I run my own email server, partly because I enjoy watching the diversity of spam and trends, partly so i know what new scams to look out for. I receive far more "drink this to cure your disease once a day!" types of emails than I do "smoking hot babe wants to send you a message" types of emails.

    theodewere , (edited )
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    the pandering can be pretty sly, although there is as much tits and ass as necessary.. Rush Limbaugh pandered to his listener's ego by convincing him that he already knew everything he needed to know.. he did that sort of with his method of bitching about the world, and they sat there and ate it up.. and just got stupider by the minute.. Rogan does the same thing.. it's the entire right-wing playbook, all the way back to Goebbels..

    the idiot's response to every good conspiracy theory is: SEE I TOLD YOU.. they just get addicted to listening for that SEE I TOLD YOU ego stroke moment..

    schroedingershat , (edited )

    I like to pretend it’s a 5D chess long con (it’s not, but pretending is fun). It’s much easier to scoop off the scum when it floats to the top, and trump got a whole bunch of them to take the mask off so they can be arrested for treason.

    Similarly it’s fun to pretend Apartheid Clyde went full fascist so that neonazis would replace their coal rollers with low-poly 90s video game pedestrian crushers to own the libs.

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    trump got a whole bunch of them to take the mask off

    what the hell are you talking about

    schroedingershat ,

    A phrase that refers to someone being openly fascist/nazi rather than trying to hide their true intentions.

    Mask-on: Bush era GOP or current European far right.

    Mask-off: DeSantis

    theodewere ,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    i don't like pretending any kind of chess.. it's a scatterbrain thing to do..

    APassenger ,

    It implies the number of opponents isn’t changing, in a thread about how they increase in number.

    Taking the mask off isn’t always a good sign. Sometimes it means the hate is being normalized.

    atzanteol ,

    The truth is that we have been steadily raised on a diet of mass produced garbage

    This is the lie though. It’s the “widely believed fact” that makes it easy to accept the other lies.

    Most of our food is just “fine”.

    funkless_eck ,

    yes if you eat only a high sugar and fat diet you will die a premature death, but honesty it’s still probably healthier than the diets of our 200,000 year old ancestors (I asset confidently with no evidence).

    I’m just assuming that when any type of farming was a rare occurrence, disease, malnutrition and poisoning were much more common.

    fiat_lux ,

    Nutritional content of grains, fruits and vegetables has declined over the past 70 years

    The world is decidedly off-track to reducing Sodium levels in foods by 2030, salt is considered the leading dietary indication for non-communicable disease. I think we're off-target for all the diet-related sustainable development health goals?

    Moderate to severe food insecurity has risen for the past 10 years, nearly half of people cannot afford adequate nutrition

    And this is before more localised issues like food deserts, natural disasters, recommendations influenced by industry, etc. Or even other issues like additives, factory farming, sugary drinks being cheaper and safer than the water supplies...

    Don't get me wrong, many of us have access to a much larger variety of food from across the world, if we can afford it, the fortification of many foods helps maintain some forms of nutrition, and regulations have made a lot of our food safer. But overall, our produce is worsening in quality and the cheaper per calorie/time foods are what people are forced to eat, and it is killing them.

    But I also meant less literal forms of diet too.

    Aceticon ,

    It makes sense that the people who will believe one category of such “simple and easy explanations and solutions” will also believe other categories of “simple and easy explanations and solutions” - believing crystals will help you tune your soul to feel better might not at all be the same thing as believing all the problems of society are due to people with the least power in it (immigrants, the “lazy” poor) but it certainly is the product of the same kind of cognitive take on the World and emotional desire for understandable “explanations” and silver-bullet “solutions” so the path from one to the next is way shorter than it might seem if all one looks at is the information space rather than the psychological and intellectual characteristics of the “believers”.

    Or to put it in cruder terms: both kinds of outlook in the World appeal to the the same kind of sucker.

    Piers ,

    People refuse to try to address that sort of wooly thinking when it is low stakes then when it becomes high stakes act shocked to see the people around them acting irrationally. One’s hypothetical friend who refused to take the vaccine because they thought it had a mind control chip in it and died as a result invariably was previously banging on about how their acupuncturist was going to help them win the lottery and people simply indulged them because “what’s the harm in them having funny beliefs about things?” The only time you actually could get through to people around you about these harmful ways of thinking is when it’s about things that don’t really matter much. If you wait until it’s life or death it’s too late to get though to them.

    Greenskye ,

    I think it’s important to realize that almost everyone is at least occasionally a sucker. There’s a grift that targets basically every personality type. There’s grift for health conscious folks, for worried parents, for ‘I’m so much smarter than others’, for gamers, for outdoorsy types, there’s something for everyone. If you aren’t careful you’ll be laughing at the other ‘idiots’ while you yourself fall into a different trap.

    Honestly once you start paying attention it’s really scary how many different and seemingly totally unrelated topics can be used to pull people into facism. So many times I’ve clicked on a different YouTube video or something and then all the sudden my feeds been taken over by right wing bullshit.

    Aceticon ,

    I agree that at in some ways and at some points in time we’re all suckers.

    I once was scammed and analysing the whole thing later I had to admit the scammer came at in the right ways to get me to draw the conclusions that better served his objectives and use my wants against myself.

    Frankly, I both was impressed and was felt it as quite an eye opener on my own blindsides and the limits of intelligence.

    Not saying he was an amazing scammer and that’s only why I was scammed (frankly I have no idea were in the hierarchy of scam artists the guy was), rather that, as you pointed out, we’re all suckers in some way or another.

    marron12 ,

    So many times I’ve clicked on a different YouTube video or something and then all the sudden my feeds been taken over by right wing bullshit.

    The strange thing to me is how much the Youtube search results and suggestions have changed, even just in the last few months. I mostly go there to listen to music and I used to get stuff I was actually interested in.

    Yesterday I went looking for a specific video. Of the top 15 results, only 2 were close to what I wanted. It wasn't even the top 2. One relevant result, then a bunch of political clickbait. Zero connection to music. And the autoplay will feed you the same thing if it's on.

    A couple weeks ago, YouTube was still giving me a whopping 3 relevant results at the top before turning on the BS algorithm hose.

    ShakyPerception ,

    It’s the anger / fear feedback loop.

    The more angry / scared you become, the more videos you watch. The more you watch the more angry / scared you become…. etc.

    The more you watch the more money YT makes. And that’s all they care about.

    yata ,

    So many times I’ve clicked on a different YouTube video or something and then all the sudden my feeds been taken over by right wing bullshit.

    I watched one youtube video which contained a complete takedown and exposure of Tucker Carlson and his lies (back when he was on Fox). Of course this meant that youtube thought I was interested in Tucker Carlson, so immediately all my recommendations was to actual official Tucker Carlson videos and similar right wing talking heads.

    I had to expunge the anti-Tucker Carlson video from my viewing history to get rid of all those shitty recommendations.

    NotYourSocialWorker ,

    For every complicated and difficult question there’s a simple, and above all, wrong solution.

    like100dollars , in 2 eject from vintage Soviet jet before crash at Michigan air show

    See pilots eject and the plane go down behind some trees: omg. Fireball: O M G !?!? People, what did you expect?

    glimse ,

    Me, hiking up Mt. Everest: Oh my god an avalanche!

    You, an intellectual: See the weight of snow overwhelm the friction holding it to them mountain. Oh my god?? What did you expect?

    assassinatedbyCIA , in Boy survives 100ft Grand Canyon fall after dodging tourist photo

    Unlucky to fall, but lucky to survive

    Jmr ,

    Unlucky to be in the USA

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, now his parents get to feel pain too.

    Burn_The_Right , (edited )

    And when he is an adult, he too will be impoverished with a lifetime of medical bills. Our country is broken.

    Imagine how nice this place could be if conservatives wanted nice things too.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Hey, if he’s “lucky,” he can get disability!

    I was on disability for two years. I got a grand total of $14,000 after it was determined that 60% of my ability to work would be affected by my (since mitigated) nerve disorder. Apparently being able to work at 40% capacity means I needed to get a job. I’m sure they would have loved me screaming in pain in whatever office.

    Also, I got that $14,000 after the fact due to the legal system being so swamped.

    Thanks, Republicans.

    TimeNaan , in Group of up to 50 people shoplift about $100K worth of luxury items from L.A. mall; used bear spray against guards

    The mace part isn’t great but otherwise I say go get it.

    This is nothing compared to what these corpos stole from us.

    RGB3x3 ,

    And how they treat the laborers that make the clothing.

    BonfireOvDreams , in Why Some Wisconsin Lawmakers and Local Officials Have Changed Their Minds About Letting Undocumented Immigrants Drive
    @BonfireOvDreams@lemmy.ml avatar

    Framing this around the dairy industry makes me want to vomit. That whole industry needs to collapse

    Cleverdawny , in Idaho’s Teacher of the Year flees state after being attacked for LGBTQ+ allyship

    Republicans are awful people. Not every Democrat or leftist is a good person - just look at Lemmygrad and Hexbear, or turds like Anthony Weiner. But every Republican has chosen to support a party which revolves around anger and bullying those who are vulnerable.

    American conservatism is distilled cruelty.

    SirStumps , (edited )
    @SirStumps@lemmy.world avatar

    Both parties are garbage. Not necessarily the people. To say one side of shit is better than the other side of shit just means your not looking at the shit the right way.

    SasquatchBanana ,

    This borderline has enlightened centrist vibes.

    SirStumps ,
    @SirStumps@lemmy.world avatar

    Maybe you’re onto something.

    Riven ,
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    100 percent. ‘Enlightened centrist’, they’re either a kid living with their parents who doesn’t really understand or a person born into privilege that refuses to see the reality of the world.

    WaterChi ,

    Claiming ‘both sides’ is how we end up with fascism in America. Be better.

    SirStumps ,
    @SirStumps@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t claim either side and be able to critically think. Probably the best option.

    AnxiousOtter ,

    Embarrassed libertarian vibes.

    SirStumps ,
    @SirStumps@lemmy.world avatar

    A shot and a miss.

    AnxiousOtter ,

    I don’t think you know what that means.

    archiotterpup ,

    You can’t think critically and come to that conclusion.

    Hallainzil ,

    If the Democrats are like a flood of sewage that comes unbidden into your home, the Republicans are like you constructed a sluice specifically to pipe it in.

    KevonLooney ,

    No. Democrats are like having to eat mushy vegetables with no salt because they’re healthy for you. Undesirable, but necessary.

    Republicans are like being paid to eat something gross from the back of the refrigerator. And only rich people get the money. If you’re poor, you just have to eat the garbage. Both unnecessary and disgusting.

    Cleverdawny ,

    Nope. Fuck off.

    AnxiousOtter , (edited )

    “MuH bOtH sIdEs” as you’re in a thread about hateful right-wing politics and people driving an objectively good teacher out of her state. You’re not very bright.

    Saneless ,

    The people are the party for Republicans. It’s their identity

    I know some Democrats and they just hate Republican policies because, well, they’re not evil people. But being a Democrat isn’t part of their identity

    Republicans are actually terrible people. Period

    SirStumps ,
    @SirStumps@lemmy.world avatar

    In quite a few ways they are similar. Both parties get money from the rich, attack those that have different view points, believe themselves more enlightened than the other, don’t keep most of their promises, lie to get what they want, throw fits when they don’t get what they want, try to divide people on issues, have zealots, and start to do stuff right before elections come up. Ultimately they are the same with minor differences in views that are taken to the extreme by few loud people.

    Saneless ,

    Now tell me what those viewpoints are

    They’re not the same, not even close

    SirStumps ,
    @SirStumps@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ll leave you too it. If I tried to explain everything to zealots I would never leave my phone. Have a good evening.

    I_hate_you_welcome ,

    Abortion rights, you fucking cunt

    webadict ,

    You’re a fucking coward and/or a dumbass.

    Abortion rights since one party thinks they shouldn’t exist. LGBTQ rights since one party thinks they shouldn’t exist. Labor rights because one party doesn’t want unions to exist or workers to get things like paid vacation or sick time. Child labor laws, because that’s it’s own category because one party thinks that 14 year olds can work 40+ hour work weeks. Free school lunches since one party thinks children in poorer familes should starve. Public education, since one party wants to siphon public funds to private schools through school vouchers. Public education again because one party supports book bans and defunding libraries. Healthcare because one party’s stance on vaccination caused twice as many of them to die during the pandemic. Healthcare again because one party’s stance is to allow insurance companies to be able to discriminate against anyone for any reason by repealing the ACA. Environment because one party has no plans of acknowledging climate change, let alone dealing with it. Environment again because one party wants to dismantle protections that limit pollution emitted into our air, water, and land. Healthcare a third time because one party wants to dismantle protections on food and medicines that would stop people from being poisoned. Labor rights again because one party wants to dismantle protections on workers that would stop them from being injured or dying.

    Riven ,
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I love how you don’t specify which party but everyone knows. Everyone always knows. The people in that party know and get mad when they’re called out and start their whataboutism.

    Mdotaut801 ,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • Apollo ,

    It kind of seems like you were just talking shite expecting not to get called on it but when you were your arse collapsed like a wet paper bag.

    dynamojoe ,

    At least you get to leave the argument and not have to abandon your state.

    fugepe ,

    Republicans are awful

    NOT EVERY Democrat or leftlist person

    Your meds schizo, take them.

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