Wow, that is really a terrible shame. ECT saved my grandfather’s life. We were all nervous about it because of the bad marketing and myths out there (which in retrospect are likely perpetrated by scientology).
It was an overnight change after years of failed treatments. We had our Pop-Pop back.
i may be OOTL on this, but hasn’t ECT always had a reputation of not achieving what it set out to do with the added bonus of irreversible damage to the patient?
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he’s not popular. he’s super unpopular. he was the biggest energizer for democratic voter turnout despite a super unpopular and boring democratic candidate. even when he won the election he lost the popular vote. just because US elections are very antidemocratic doesn’t mean he’s popular. stop making shit up.
“Moreover, one arm of the administration cannot sue another, so the military cannot sue the EPA, and the case would never end up in court where the Chevron decision would come into play, said Walter Mugdan, a former EPA Superfund director. Instead, it would be resolved internally by a presidential administration instead of the judiciary.”
Breaking up homeless encampments doesn’t fix the fact that these people have nowhere to live! What a cruel policy.
Why not emminent domain overpriced apartment buildings owned by the Saudis, Chinese, and Russians, and give the apartments away the homeless. Problem solved.
You don’t understand because your never consider the consequences of your actions.
Providing shelter for everyone is a basic human need.
But forcing mentally ill people mixed together with financially downtrodden unhoused people into a Kowloon City type environment without considering their ability to maintain their cleanliness and safety without imposing jack-booted level of policing is another level of stupid I can’t force out of you without an hours long face-to-face lecture where you and I can discuss like two friendly normal people.
“force your opinion out of you over an hours long conversation like a normal friendly person”
time for some self reflection there, baroque
i happen to agree with you too, as would i think anyone who has spent time in an american projects or shelter system, but youve so thoroughly poisoned the argument i cant take it up here.
I mean. Comparing modern ECTs to the shit from the 60s is like saying a doctor testing knee reflexes with the little hammer is the same as taking a sledgehammer to a kneecap…
Not sure what to think about this. I hate Scientology, but I’m pretty iffy on ECT. My grandma had those treatments for years and it seemed to treat her anxiety by destroying her memory. I looked it up and treating anxiety with it is “controversial.”
That doesn’t make me an expert in it and maybe there are folks it does wonderful things for, but at least in her case they probably should’ve just loaded her up with Xanax. Not that that is a wonderful option either, but that was really all she wanted and I think she put up with the ECT to try to convince them she needed it.
So Scientology can get bent but I’ll allow for the possibility that maybe the stopped clock could be right here. Or maybe you folks have all seen it work much better than I have.
Edit: I should make clear - science should be challenged by researchers, not Scientologists. That’s how science works - withstand falsification. If this causes any non-idiots to look at the data and reaffirm the treatment, I’m for that. As stated, Scientology itself can get fucked and die in a fire.
100%. I am self-aware here. I’m not a professional, I just was in frequent contact with her during that part of her life. She was in one of those independent living places after my grandfather died, but still had her wits. This wasn’t end of life care. We could carry on long conversations about all kinds of things, past and present. If you’re implying it was dementia or Alzheimer’s, she never was diagnosed with either and lived another 15 years or so.
I know, anecdotes aren’t data. I trust the medical profession as a whole. But there have been a lot of reproducibility issues with studies that have come out, particularly in the area of mental health. And between that and my experience I’m okay with taking another look at the data. But if researchers and clinicians are satisfied, I won’t gainsay that.
There are possible side effects though, like any medical treatment, so the potential risks do need to be weighed against the potential benefits, again like any medical treatment. I’ve seen ECT work wonders for certain conditions though
Unless you have a medical license or a PhD what you typed holds absolutely zero weight. It’s the equivalent of saying all surgery is bad because a surgeon left a sponge inside my grandma
It’s anecdotal. There are mountains of data and studies now. Still amazes me that people still argue “Oh, well X is bad because I know 1 person who had a bad experience”
I think I was petty clear it’s an anecdote. There’s not very much to discuss here other than us nodding our heads in agreement that Scientology is bad. This is a discussion board. I discussed.
ECT is not a treatment for anxiety, unfortunately. I’ve seen it work wonders for severe depression, mania, and catatonia, but never for anxiety.
Sometimes I’ve seen ECT being used as a “last resort” treatment for people with issues that can only be treated with psychotherapy, like PTSD or borderline personality disorder, but who have been unwilling or unable to do the work over the course of years and the doctors are lost on where to go next. In these cases ECT is almost universally a failure and the side effects are not worth it.
For someone in a manic episode or who’s experiencing catatonia, some memory loss is a small trade to have your life back.
It is, or at least was, a controversial treatment for anxiety. And my grandma was drug seeking. She just wanted to be bombed out of her mind on Xanax, so I can even see looking for other treatment options out of desperation because nothing worked the way she wanted and they wouldn’t give her enough Xanax.
I get it. It was just hard to watch her after her treatments. At first the memories came back, but eventually they didn’t.
But that’s just my experience. I’m not going to argue with medical science because even if future science shows mistakes were made, it’s not like I have the knowledge or experience to do better. But science grows by being challenged and proving itself or being proven wrong. I’m okay with it being challenged by actual professionals - not by Scientologists.
Lots of medical treatments are improperly applied due to a physician’s poor clinical judgment, and it sounds like that’s what happened in this case. Sorry this happened to your grandma
Aaron Levin Smith made a video on Shelleys whereabouts somewhat recently. IIRC she’s in a compound in California somewhere and she’s fine, by all outward appearances. I’m pretty sure she’s drinking the kool ade like the rest of them.
Appearances can be deceiving. They wouldn’t be hiding her in a compound for years and not responding to inquiries if everything was good between her and the CoS.
From what I understand, she doesn’t seem to be held against her will. If Aaron Levin Smith is to be believed (being that he is a former Sea Org member, I’d say his credibility is good), she’s been seen out and about running errands and the like, but always with a security detail. There’s a decent chance that I’m misremembering something, though, so take this with a pinch of salt.
Yeah people are desperate to believe horror stories especially involving a woman but the reality is very likely she’s just a member of the cult living a relaxed and affluent life on the money they swindle.
Huh, interesting. Probably not “fine” though since if she’s at Gold / Int Base she’s probably being held against her will, considering that the whole base is sorta built around being like a prison compound and they even have private security “pursuit teams” to hunt down escapees.
Edit: not to say that everybody at Int is being held against their will, but it’s where eg. The Hole is so if somebody is being held, Int is probably where they’d be
According to some former members of Scientology, conditions within Gold Base are harsh, with staff members receiving sporadic paychecks of $50 at most, working seven days a week, and being subjected to punishments for failing to meet work quotas.[2] Media reports have stated that around 100 people a year try to escape from the base but most are soon retrieved by “pursuit teams”. Despite many accounts of mistreatment from ex-members, law enforcement investigations and lawsuits against Scientology have been thwarted by the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious freedom and the church’s ability to rely on “ministerial exemptions” in employment law. Scientology denies any mistreatment and calls the base “the ideal setting for professional and spiritual growth”.
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